The Sounds of the Grapevine is a meant to be a fun, information and gossip column that should not be taken too seriously, but may give the readers some insight into happenings in Lake Forest.  The webmaster makes no promises of accuracy, but does promise not to print out and out lies.  Vulgarity will not be allowed.  Nothing that could be considered libelous will be printed.  Anyone who is interested in Lake Forest is welcome to contribute.  Unless the contributor specifically indicates that we do so, we will not print his or her name.  However, we will not accept anything that is anonymous.  The most recent contributions are listed first, so if you would like to read the story in the order that it was presented, you might want to jump to the bottom of the page and work your way back up.  The text that is seen in bold and italicized print is usually a cut & paste of someone's contribution.  Anything submitted may be filtered to avoid the above mentioned no-nose.  Determining what content is inappropriate for the Sounds of the Grapevine column is at the sole discretion of the webmaster. Statements proceeded by a are comments made by the webmaster.   A submission to the Grapevine may be made by Email to the webmaster or selecting the Suggestion Box graphics from one of its many locations on this site.   

06/25/2010

Management companies want to make a profit just like any other company. Lake Forest amenities have no profit. A contracting company would have to build in the costs of employees (payroll, benefts , etc)to its annual/monthly fee paid by Lake Forest. If the annual/monthly fee proposed to be paid by LFPOA is less than the current payroll overhead paid, then you can expect significant fee increases to the amenities to make it somewhat profitable for the management company. That's just one issue.

6/25/2010

Regarding the special meeting, the one you mentioned is not the one the other person is talking about.  Apparently there is a special meeting of the board, not the membership, for the purpose of interviewing a management company.  The board is considering turning the management of the LFPOA amenities over to this other organization.  According to the story I heard, the last time they tried this, Steve convinced the prospective management company that everything in Lake Forest was fine and they were not needed, so the other company never followed up.  This time, I heard that Steve has been unable to get to the management firm.

If all this is true, then Steve probably should be getting his resume^` up to date.

06/24/2010

Public Meeting for the Comprehensive Watershed Management Plan for D'Olive Creek will be held Tuesday June 29, 2010 from 6:00-8:00 pm at the Five Rivers Center on the Causeway. Make sure to go and hear of the problems and proposed solutions to the issues involving the Lake Forest Lake and D'Olive Creek. Once Approved and Adopted, this will be the road map for changes to the watershed. The plan includes lake dredging and protection

06/24/2010

I keep hearing about Special Meetings. Anything to that?

The last I heard was from Clint at one of the stated board meetings.  He said he would be calling a special meeting to vote on his "vision" for Lake Forest.  However, from reading his contribution to the newsletter, he doesn't appear to have the votes on the board.  We'll keep listening for more.

06/21/2010

06/18/2010

One more comment..one way to insure your services are considered in the future is to call the General Manager derogatory names. That works every time;)

Oops.  I missed the name calling.  Otherwise, I would have cut it out of the message.  Apologies.

06/18/2010

What a great suggestion..using our members and their businesses for work the association needs. I would suggest that if your business has a product or service that this association may need or purchase, that you go by and give your information to management. As for the pumps..these irrigation pumps are rather large industrial pumps. I have heard 75 hp. I also heard that their age required replacement parts to be fabricated locally. The emergency was indeed real. The golf course suffered greatly when these pumps went down. I also think more than pump repair was accomplished. The inlet pipe from the irrigation pond to the pumps' clearwell was also replaced. There is still work to do to safe the system up

06/18/2010

None of the pumps were replaced, they were all rebuilt.

06/17/2010

Hello, Mitch or anyone who may can find out this information - Regarding the failed irrigation pumps / deep well pumps, etc...Does anyone have information on what type of pumps were replaced? i.e.---Brands, Model #'s, Diameter of well bore? Or, where are the pumps located on the property. I would like to "visit" the system. The reason I am asking is that my business can acquire these pumps (or could have). I would like to see what I could have acquired the pumps for. Everyone is complaining about the $25,000.00 spent on the pump(s) -- was this a fair price or not. Perhaps with installation labor it was, who knows -- THE @*%&!>! JOB WAS NOT EVEN BID OUT! If someone can get the info I will repost what my wholesale pump price is and then we can all figure out what the labor was. This may help end this particular debate. Maybe the $25K was necessary and fair. Hopefully, in the future, when things such as this occur those few people with the power to decide to spend our money will bid out the jobs. The jackhole manager (with emergency spending authority) stated that there was no time to check for prices as this was such a critical emergency, hum thats sounds fishy to me. Maybe the board should ask for and assemble a list of contractors (there are bunches of us in this neighborhood) then in an emergency situation they could call one of us as well as outsiders and see if we may be able to fix the problem cheaper (to help our community). Who knows you may get a real deal from someone who actually lives here and benefits from what happens here! Thanks

06/15/2010

The obstacle is not Clint. It is the idea that we already pay enough in dues to support the amenities. The evidence is clear that we do not. The argument is about how much we should pay to have three nice pools, 6 tennis courts, 27 holes of golf and a waterfront marina-yacht club facility along with the appropriate food and beverage operations. The membership has never self-imposed dues to sustain any facility, let alone all of them. The board has, and always will be, the group that will need to establish dues, based on needs and operational requirements. Clint has had three years to enlighten the membership about management issues. His answer is only to get rid of subsidized operations that serve our membership or sell off assets. Is this leadership for our community? Is this what Lake Forest's destiny is? Many believe that the community should indeed fund the facilities and operations at a level that gives us better pools, better tennis courts, better buildings, more enjoyable recreation, and a workable marina. Had the dues been set by the board alone, we would have these things. Instead, we have chosen not to improve or invest in our properties by funding the association to a level that allowed it. More and more of the dues money moved from investment to operations. This was not a result of anything other than higher costs. Costs for energy, insurance, health insurance, fertilizer, pool chemicals, and nearly every other variable cost we have has gone up, particularly after Ivan and Katrina. It is time for our members to let the board make choices, not about what to cut loose or sell, but about how much of an increase can we get by with and still keep operations going, maintain our common properties, and actually invest in them for a better package for our members. One suggestion is to do a by-law that directs the board to invest 25% of all dues into the common properties for improvements. This capital reserve account, to be used exclusively on capital investment, would provide for continued improvements and enhancements that would lead to more utilization, attractive amenities, and even better revenues from them. Selling things is a stop gap measure that eventually runs out of assets to sell.

06/15/2010

The reversal of the dues increase will certainly fulfill Clint's dream of no dues increase.  He is against any increase under "all" circumstances.  Even if the membership would approve one, he would still be against it.  Is it any wonder, as was promised at the retreat, that no community meeting was called?  His plan hinges on "reorganization', ie. sell the yacht club.  At the workshop, I judged the sense of the board to his plan was a non-starter. But remember that this is his avowed goal.

While it is fresh in your mind, recall that meeting.  We discussed the possibility of the balloon loan being recalled.  As a reminder, last year, the bank was reluctant to provide a loan.  They  had extensive conversations with the auditors.   In spite of our good payment record, the bank seemed to then focus on our revenues.  "Coincidentally" once the dues increase was approved, the loan came through.  I am concerned about the banks perception of a reversal.  What signal does that send?  It certainly gives them another reason, in conjunction with the bad economy, to call the loan.

During the discussion of allocating part of the new income to debt service, Clint again suggested why not simply sell the yacht club and pay off the bank. If this was done, there would be no collateral on which to borrow for future improvements, to simply pay bills at the end of the year due to cash shortage, or to address any crisis.  Again remember that Clint wants to sell the yacht club probably to fund a centralized pool.  We will save its feasibility for another day.

Consider for a moment the following likely scenario: No dues increase and the bank calls the loan.  Our only alternative is to sell the yacht club at a fire sale price.  Guess what?  All of Clint's plans are realized.  Is this not a possibility?  Are you willing to guarantee that it could not happen?    Actions have consequences.  Study the situation, consider the possibilities, and plan for all outcomes.  The dues increase is not the end all, but at lease it is a start to fiscal responsibility.  Without last year’s action, we probably would not be having this discussion.  If nothing else, it forced you to look at the financials.  If you have an idea, let’s hear it.  Time is running out.

In summary: Clint's stated goal is no dues increase and sell the yacht club.  I believe that he has found a cleaver way of accomplishing that goal. Unfortunately,  there is little accomplishment the board can point to this year.  Nothing but bickering and fractionation. We are at a crossroads and the future of this POA is in your hands.  Do not let history forever judge this board for its inaction and the eventual demise of this association. I do not forever want to be associated with a board that dithered and  buried its head in the sand.  There is a saying, "Nero fiddled while Rome burned."  History will be the final judge and arbitrator.

The above letter was sent to the board by one of its directors.  What I find puzzling is that Clint has one vote out of nine.  Why is he such an obstacle to the board?

06/11/2010

06/08/2010

Ray Sturch reported that Our irrigation problems have been exacerbated by the recent seizure of the deep well pump that supplies the irrigation lake. This created another emergency situation that demanded immediate action. This pump was installed in 1976 and has not been removed since. Funny because if you pull the records the pump was rebuilt and put back in 2 or 3 years ago. Now someone may not have put oil in it like they are suppose to, but I can assure you the financials show it was replaced. I can also say that Mrs. Trosclair even commented at a garden club meeting later, about how nice it was to have a quiet pump now!

5/24/2010

Well, after considering the proposals..I see htat there is no proposal offered that increases revenues from teh existing faciltities. It seems eliminating revenue-producing amenities is the pleasure. Lake Nine- $130-150,000 annual revenues; Yacht Club- $90-120,000 annual F&B revenues; Marina & Storage- $40-50,000 annual revenues. So my question is this..Does the costs being eliminated with these being disposed of offset the revenue losses? We know that the maintenance of the Lake Nine will not appreciably lessen the Golf maintenance. We may even lose money on that deal because we still maintain the park, just lose revenue. That is going backwards. BAD IDEA! The Yacht Club, has the marina that is profitable to about $3000 a month. That offsets some of the food & Beverage loss. With the country club gone, F&B at the Yacht Club shoudl see a spike in revenues with little appreciable costs, so losses will be going down. Is it fair for the members to subsidize the Yacht Club to the tune of $10K a month? $5K? What level, if any is acceptable? Where can we really save money??? The elimination of the neighbiorhood pools, going from 3 to 1 pool would actually lose little revenue and eliminate $100K in costs. So, Close Montclair and Ridgewood??? the two most used pools? Look at the savings! More savings there than closing the Lake Nine. Jus' sayin'. Where else can we save? How much does the tennis program cost? Is it self sustaining? Mothball the courts, they are due for a major overhaul we cannot afford. Turn the lights out and lock the gates! There are very few users there, anyway. What next?? Do you see where this thinking leads? For a recreational community to provide amenties and maintain them, we must pay for them through dues subsidies. Whether it is golf, swim , tennis, or boating, the association amenties need member support. Make it happen, or shut it all down.

Having fun with this one? Not much help, though.

05/20/2010

The County Commission, when they killed the service road north of I-10 at the request of Timbercreek residents, in effect, stopped a major streeam restoration project that was tied to this funding. This was initiated by our Councilman, Gus Palumbo, ignorant to the facts. He and the rest of the city council acted hastily without study to avoid being mobbed by angry citizens. Is this why we elect them? To cower under pressure? It is so sad to see an estimated $1M of stream fixes go down the drain. Lake Forest residents should rightly be disgusted that we will continue to get he erosion sediment in our lake and in the bay. After six years of effort for this are to be fixed, a way to fix it comes along, and BAM! killed by our city council. The City should take the $1M that was to fund the service road and do the stream restoration and stabilization. That would make a mends to the environment.

Agreed.  I spoke with our State Representative just yesterday about this very issue and he also was very disappointed in the action.  What I don't see is why this surprises you.  Did you expect something else from the Daphne City Council?  Good judgment, maybe?  Look at the bright side.  They can take all the sediment that is washing down D'Olive creek and use it to fill the potholes in Lake Forest streets.

5/20/2010

All this talk about selling stuff and closing stuff...should all go away and the board should determine the dues. If this happens, as it was originally written, the board can then charge a dues amount that would insure improvement to all our amenities. If the selling occurs, and continued deterioration of our amenities, lake forest is head to become a slum area. In 2023, the covenants expiring will have no meaning, the place will already be a dump. Restore the by-laws to the original ones. That is the right thing to do.

While your suggestions makes sense, the "right thing to do" will not solve the problem in 2023.  Even if we have beautiful amenities that are immaculately maintained with quality golf, tennis and boating facilities for only $62/month (allowing for inflation), the majority of the membership will leave once those covenants expire.  So, don't sell anything.  Just find a way to reconfigure what we have so that most people believe that being a member is worth $62 a month.  That was what we were working toward before.  Would converting the Lake Nine into a nice central park do the trick by itself? Do we have time? What do you think? Based on this contributor's comment, I have offered a compromise at the bottom of my original proposal as follows:

One of our former directors has already objected to this plan in just one day on The Grapevine.  So, let's compromise.  Don't sell anything.  Just convert that Lake Nine to a park.  Even if the board limits dues increases to inflation, we will probably be looking at $62 a month in 2023.  Shall we take the gamble?  Will a nice central park for walking, picnicking and so on keep the members from leaving when the covenants expire?  Should we even care?  Maybe we should implement a plan because it would be good for Lake Forest today and let 2023 take care of itself.  Are you willing to risk putting that to a vote now?  If we were to put three options on a proxy, Clint's plan, the plan described above and this modified idea, which do you think would get the most votes?  If you do not want to sell the Yacht Club, you'd better leave the plan above off the proxy.  Frankly, directors, none of this should go to a vote.  It is your responsibility to decide on a plan and implement it. Don't try to pass that responsibility off.

05/19/2010

This little blurb from the summary of the last board meeting came out of the May 2010 newsletter.

"Clint announced his proposal to sell Lake 9 and sell the Yacht Club. There would be no dues increase and with the selling of the property, build a new facility that would house pool, tennis, and club house. This was not popular amongst the members attending the meeting."

Select this link to see an alternate proposal from your old Weblord.

05/12/2010

Just read the 5/10 contributor's put down of the Garden Club. He/she apparently does not think much of the flowers and shrubs that the Garden Club has been planting at our entrances for years. The writer seems to think that the only ones who do any thing around here are the Improvement Committee and the Landscape Coalition. Well, in that case let's see some of those guys from the Improvement Committee get out there and work with the Daphne High School to get the flowers, clean the flower beds and plant the flower beds in the fall. Come on guys, you can do it.! And as for the Landscape Coalition, I thought better of you than such pettiness. After all, there are quite a few women from the Garden Club volunteering in the Landscape Coalition. Maybe we should rethink. And as for begging the Board for money, the Women's Club and the Garden Club raise their own money. In fact the Womens Club made enough money on their own that they were able to donate to quite a few groups in our community this past year. We don't need to beg the Board for money.

I'm not sure the original contributor was criticizing the Garden Club.  I believe his criticism was more directed at the LFPOA board of directors. I believe he simply failed to credit the Garden Club for all of their hard work.

05/10/2010

I love to hear it when contributors talk like this.."there is no restraint on how the money is spent, not a lack of money.." and follow up with .."If there is no dues increase, we will become bankrupt in 2-3 years. " Now, I can understand that there is revenue and expenses. Total revenue is roughly 2.6 million dollars. Dues revenue is 1.3 million. It could also be said that user fees pay all salaries, couldn't it? Why would you just say that the dues goes only to salaries? Look like the dues pay for utilities, insurance, and cost of goods, while user fees are paying for the people. In reality, there are positions that are fully supported by dues, and those that are supported by dues and user fees. Take golf for example. Golf brings in nearly $750,000 in user fees. Is it fair to say that our dues are paying for golf maintenance personnel? We subsidize golf at around $250,000 annually. In contrast, the pools bring in around $8000 in user fees. We subsidize the pools over $100,000 annually. You can look at each operation the same way, each property the same. Architectural brings in some revenue, but we subsidize that. The General Administration and accounting functions, are fully dependant on dues, as they earn no revenue. So, can we lessen that cost any?? Could we get that work done for less? It is a safe bet to assume that boards over the years have discussed and even received costs from asset management groups to do this. The answer or result is that we continue to do this on our own. What can we infer from this?? For one, it would probably cost more to! hire this work done?? Or maybe firms are not interested in offering that to the LFPOA after reviewing the income/expense statements?? Here is the deal: We need more money in order to invest in our properties. There is but one source for this, the members. Pay more or not, the condition of our association and its properties are reflected by that decision.

5/10/2010

I appreciate all this talk about the entrances, and making this community nicer with shrubs, and flowers, but you are giving credit to the wrong group. Our present board contributes nothing to the beautification of Lake Forest. All the improvements are made by the Improvement Committee, and the Landscape Coalition. There are only a few hard workers making a difference. The board has been asked for funding for the projects that these people are working on, and the board will not support these efforts. The funding at Lake Forest is critical, because there is no restraint on how the money is spent, not a lack of money. We receive 1.2 Million from dues, and all of that goes to salaries. None of our amenities make money, but enough is made to help with maintenance of amenities. We have a balloon note due in 2012 on .4 Million dollars, and no attempt is being made to save money for this event. If there is no dues increase, we will become bankrupt in 2-3 years. If there is a dues increase, they will blow it and we will be no better off. There needs to be drastic changes in Lake Forest Management, and soon

04/28/2010

Yes we agree.. "How about seriously using the residents monthly contributions (soon to be raised) to! improve the appearance of our subdivision, which would benefit everyone,.." That is the answer. The problem is that the current operations costs do not allow the dues to accrue any capital to invest in the facilities. Perhaps a by-law change that requires the dues to be invested is the answer. 25% of dues going into a reserve capital account for the improvement of the buildings and properties of the association sounds like a good start. At current rates and member numbers that would allow investment of over $! 300K annually. We could improve our facilities immensely. Oh wait.. what would we operate on??

Unfortunately, too many members don't care whether we operate or not.  Until the perception changes that the association only serves a few, this problem will continue.

04/27/2010

In addition to the minimum food and beverage charge per quarter, maybe we could have a minimum quarterly charge to use the restrooms in all the facilities, then tax those who use the streets of LF for walking exercise, I'm sure we can come up with other ways to tax the members including raising the monthly fee and I'm sure if we all think about we can come up with all sorts of things to take the pleasure out of living in LF - we are already on our way toward that end. How about seriously using the residents monthly contributions (soon to be raised) to! improve the appearance of our subdivision, which would benefit everyone, and quit arguing over which facility is most popular and where to spend the money. Give me a break!

Perhaps you can give our readers some examples of how their dues could be used to improve the appearance of the subdivision.  Over the years we have seen the entrances upgraded.  For a while, there was a volunteer effort made to clean up the medians with support from the association.  The Lake Forest Garden Club does some beautiful work in the community.  The very nature of running a golf course in which the fairways and greens are in constant maintenance, also improves the appearance of the community, in particular for the hundreds of families who actually life on the course.  What else can your recommend?

04/23/2010

Several of you have commented on Clint's plans to destroy/renovate (depending on your point of view) the amenities.  You might want to browse the photo album on the main page.  Much of the Lake Forest depicted there will be gone before too long.

04/20/2010

The answer to the funding crisis at the LFPOA is for the board to institute a minimum food and beverage charge per quarter. A "Use it or Lose" fee. If you eat or drink to a certain level, you will see no difference. This would offset the losses in the Food and Beverage operation. The funding result would allow for investment in the amenities or even in improved food service, more "free" appetizers during happy hour, or even actual china plates instead of plastic baskets. Secondarily, a "Use it or Lose it" Food and Beverage Charge, would increase the usage of the Yacht Club and 19th Hole by our members. This has been discussed over the years and rejected by many, many boards. It is one avenue to explore

04/20/2010

What about all the groups and funtions that are booked into 2011???????? you can't call a bride and tell her we are closing!!! Clint is NEVER at the YC or any function, so what does he know!!!!!!!! He needs to get a copy of the monthly calendar to see just WHAT does go on.

04/19/2010

I would like to know what kind of proof Clint Martin had to make him think that the people of Lake Forest want a centralized location for pools and tennis courts. The pools are in a central location around the neighborhood located in three central locations which allows all of the residence to be near a pool. Why would we want to sell the Yacht Club at the very worst time to sell property. Also where would any of the clubs meet. I guess we will set up tents at the country club vacant lot. The survey pointed out what the residents want and although several years old,! the data should still be accurate. I would suggest of Clint to listen to the people and not Ghost Whispers in the wind. Raise the dues, keep all of the amenities and find out a way to solve the money problem caused by the White Elephant aka the golf course.

04/16/2010

At the stated meeting, in the Yacht Club last night, LFPOA President Clint Martin proposed to sell the Yacht Club and maybe the Lake Nine to get a cash infusion into the association. The cash would be used to build a central golf, swimming, and tennis location at the country club site. He stated that the membership wanted this and he would fight for it. His rationale is that to raise dues every so often "is not sustainable". But then again, neither is selling off properties to fund improvements. Eventually, we run out of properties. Members were allowed to speak following his proposal. Most were less than enthusiastic about this. There were several people in the audience appearing to support Clint. I did not hear any of them speak about it. Here is the thing..Clint has continued to speak of improvements to LF and getting the facilities better while not allowing it to happen. He thinks that raising dues is not an acceptable thing. His board is looking at draconian cuts in employee benefits and even salaries. This is a pathetic bunch. Selling property just to save themselves a cool $6.00 a month. Am I missing something?

Should you paint the whole group with Clint's brush?  It seems that Clint has always heard voices.  You have to wonder if the membership wanted this, then why did they respond the opposite way on your survey?  In any event, there have been several who believed all along that the whole idea behind tearing down the Country Club in the first place was to rebuild it along these lines. 

04/12/2010

Residents of Lake Forest may be interested in www.savetimbercreekgolf.com As well as Daphne/Baldwin tax dollars being spent on the Woodrow Lane/I-10 Service road this development is going to affect the wetlands that link TimberCreek with Lake Forest. Help us stop this nonsense by signing the petition and adding your voice to the comments on the blog.