The Sounds of the Grapevine is a meant to be a fun, information and gossip column that should not be taken too seriously, but may give the readers some insight into happenings in Lake Forest.  The webmaster makes no promises of accuracy, but does promise not to print out and out lies.  Vulgarity will not be allowed.  Nothing that could be considered libelous will be printed.  Anyone who is interested in Lake Forest is welcome to contribute.  Unless the contributor specifically indicates that we do so, we will not print his or her name.  However, we will not accept anything that is anonymous.  The most recent contributions are listed first, so if you would like to read the story in the order that it was presented, you might want to jump to the bottom of the page and work your way back up.  The text that is seen in bold and italicized print is usually a cut & paste of someone's contribution.  Anything submitted may be filtered to avoid the above mentioned no-nose.  Determining what content is inappropriate for the Sounds of the Grapevine column is at the sole discretion of the webmaster. Statements proceeded by a are comments made by the webmaster.   A submission to the Grapevine may be made by Email to the webmaster or selecting the Suggestion Box graphics ()  from one of its many locations on this site.

07/30/2010

I just wanted to thank whoever is responsible for this reasonably open forum on Lake Forest community. I wish I would of discovered this site years ago.

  You're welcome.  Mitch

07/29/2010

How does the membership feel about closed meetings of the board? I understand that the board will meet behind closed doors to discuss the management company's findings and recommendations. There was a time when this behavior would have been considered inappropriate.  Is this Lake Forest's own Obama Administration? Claim to want to fix things, provide openness and accountability...then do things in the dark of night behind closed doors.  How often does this group meet off the properties?  At a member's home?  These questions deserve credible answers.

07/27/2010

 I noticed that my golf fees are higher now. I was told it was the new 1% tax. The increase was closer to 10% than 1%. I guess they want to collect all taxes separate. It seems it would be easier to establish a rate, then charge a tax on that amount. The calculation would be in the system then as well. So, Users are paying more. FYI

07/27/2010

Sorry to hear of the passing of Mr. Underwood. He was a diligent and intelligent member of our community for many years. His activism was essential in establishing the known fact that the members of the community want to keep the common properties. He and others were met by incensed members as they sought to dismantle the community. History is repeating itself, again.

07/27/2010

It would appear that the roads were taken over by Baldwin County following this 1981 agreement. The City then annexed the area in 1988 and took over responsibility. Facts are simple to find, while hearsay and innuendo are not something to make judgements on. http://openjurist.org/971/f2d/1558/baldwin-county-ala-v-purcell-corporation

07/26/2010

It's incredible that someone would want to "give" anything to the City of Daphne. This is the council that approved an outdated "round about" intersection. Anyone who's every seen or been on one of those should recognize the hazzard of them. I recall reading that a 4 way stop intersection is the safest and most efficient intersection there is. The writer also insists on referring to two groups "users" and "non-users". Again the writer needs to recall why he/she bought here. Did they read the provision concerning dues? If not then stop complaining for your ignorance. If you did, then you knew that the monthly fees went to maintaining the "common grounds" ie golf course, yacht club, tennis courts, etc. And at the end of the covenants if they are allowed to expire like you are wishing for, what will Lake Forest look like. Be careful what you wish for.

07/23/2010

Let me start by saying that I am not a newcomer to Lake Forest. I built my house in 1987 and have been here ever since. When I moved here, Diamondhead (the developer) was still on-site and they still owned the roads and utilities. I have seen many “Boards” and sat through many annual meetings. I believe that it is criminal that the “Board” raised our dues without a vote of the membership. It appears to me that there is a battle between the “Users” and the “Non-Users”. The “Users” want the membership to provide additional funds to the LFPOA to maintain the “Users” amenities and the “Non-Users” do not want to pay anything for the “Users” amenities, much less be told that the Board decided to increase their dues without a vote. The “Non-Users” just want to hang in there for 12 more years until the mandatory dues go away. I believe there is a way to make everyone happy. I think that the LFPOA should give all of there assets to the City of Daphne. I know that some “Users” don’t want the “general public” on their Golf Course or in their Yacht Club but I believe that everyone would benefit on the long run. If these were public facilities the City of Daphne would be eligible for federal funds to dredge and maintain the channel to the yacht club, be eligible for federal funds to dredge the Lake and maintain the dam and may be able to obtain recreational grants to maintain and improve the Golf Course. If we went this route, we could basically “have our cake and eat it too”. In the short term our dues could be reduced ( Happy Non-Users) and in the long term our amenities would be here long past 12 years when the mandatory dues go away (Happy Users). Sounds like a pretty simple solution to me.

  To my knowledge the City of Daphne has shown no interest in owning the Lake Forest amenities.  They may have looked at Fairhope's experience with Quail Creek and realized that a facility like the golf course is just too expensive.  Giving away the Yacht Club would be an incredible gift to say the least.  We're talking about an asset worth millions.  In fact, all of the Lake Forest assets amount to millions of dollars that the contributor is suggesting be given away.  This is real market value, not the depreciated value that is shown on the books.  It is the opinion of this writer that Lake Forest is generous enough to the City of Daphne, when we consider that we are responsible for millions of dollars in property, other ad valorem and sales taxes for which we can't even get our sorry streets fixed.  It would seem that there could be a better solution for the 3000 families that own property in this community.

Note: The contributor is mistaken about Purcell Corp. (Diamondhead) owning the roads, etc in 1987.  The property owners took over all that in the late 70's and the City of Daphne took it over, when they annexed Lake Forest some time later.  Purcell did own a great deal of the undeveloped area, until they sold out to Friday Construction six or seven years ago.

07/22/2010

Nice article that includes the swim team in the paper. Lake Forest Swim Team won the boys, 2nd in girls and overall at City Meet. Congrats Lake Forest Seahorses! Video on LFPOA Home Page.

07/20/2010

Wow! The emotional outbursts will certainly aid the discussion on this forum. Perhaps the contributor can discuss the reasons why the GM has shown incompetence. Rather than attack those that are supporting the amenities with their dollars, above and beyond the dues paying, these folks should be thankful that there are users. Since the users provide as much revenue as all dues payers combined, it would seem they have more at stake, more to be concerned about. It is not that users want non-using members to pay more than they do, is it? No one has squelched the non-user here. In fact, the non-user has been in control of Lake Forest for years. Does anyone actually think that the users would allow their facilities to deteriorate to this level if they truly had control?? Here is the rub...by the board setting the dues, the non-users are out in force, they know that they have not been funding adequately the common properties, and they want to keep it that way!! Their fear is here...they may have to support the properties to a reasonable level and pay a few more dollars a month. Oh the horror!! No day dreaming, here, that is reality. Get yourself out of a recreational neighborhood and live where you have no amenities to maintain. That is the answer. Peace out!

07/20/2010

So why did this "non-user" move here? If you're so intelligent then you read the agreement that there are fees associated with living in this sub-division. And by the way, where are your "facts" to support your rant about why the GM should be fired? Seems to me that if you're going to be on the Bd of Directors but not use the amenities, you would at least want to show up on property to see what's going on. Doesn't cost a dime to go to the Nineteenth hole, Yacht Club, Tennis courts. Speaking of tennis courts, where is the LFPOA Board President playing tennis now that Rock Creek closed their courts?

  The tennis courts at Rock Creek are closed?  That's too bad.  Those are nice tennis courts.

07/19/2010

I was told that even when the covenants expire, that we will still be paying the monthly dues . . . so, will we or won't we be paying? Thanks.

  The requirement to be a member of the Lake Forest Property Owners is defined in the covenants.  Those covenants have a 50 year life, after which they are no more.  That is on the first page of the covenants themselves.  If the covenants have expired, what authority is there that says a property owner must be a member of the association?  There is no city ordinance.  There is no other state or federal law.  There is nothing, which means to this writer that when those covenants expire, membership in the association will be optional.  No, we will not be paying dues unless we choose to be a member of the association.  I will be really interested to hear a conflicting opinion.

07/19/2010

Well -- Hello there, friends! I am the one that stood up in front of the crowd at the last meeting and called for the FIRING of the GM for incompetence, you fill in the blank, etc... By the way, I am no board member's brother in law. Besides if I was does that really matter? I do have my own brain and speak of my own free will. Your statement about "non-user board members" - I'm gonna take that a step further "non-user residents" that we should be weary! WE ALL PAY DUES HERE MORON! USERS OR NOT - we are all FOOTING THE BILL! "You" so called USERS OF ALL THE AMENITIES make the other residents feel as though they can't speak their mind and have no right's or input into your precious clubs. Many / Most of us work full time and do not have time to attend the events - we have young families. Do you remember what that was like - or was that too long ago for you. BOTTOM LINE!!!! WE (RESIDENTS) ALL PAY FOR ALL OF THE AMENITIES - (the one you "users" enjoy daily) SO WE CAN SAY AND DO WHAT WE PLEASE! GET OVER IT. This concept makes sense to me ~ You comprende my point señor. My neighborhood too! While I'm on this topic of disrespect to us full paying "non-users" by you full time "users". INTERESTING--after I said what I did at the meeting I was approached by some of the older folks rudely asking me who I was, where I lived, how many days a week I golf, how often I use the other things such as at the yacht club, etc...I got the distinct feeling that I had no business there commenting on their business(?).! Surely not, that couldn't be their intent, I thought. Then other people came out after the meeting ( I left the building before they did). Other people came out that know me and echoed the vibe I was getting -- That vibe was who in the heck does that kid think he is coming in here saying that. He doesn't even golf or go to the yacht club. You people with this mind set are morons in my opinion. As I said earlier, I / we residents pay our dues also, so we have to same rights as you. You old mindset is running this place into the ground. Wake up from your daydream-please.

  Let's tone down the rhetoric a little, please.  It is true that all members of the LFPOA support the association with their maintenance fees and, therefore, have a stake in the efficient operation of the place.  In fact, without the contribution of a great many non-users, the amenities in Lake Forest would have a very difficult time surviving; something that we are going to discover, when the covenants expire in a little over twelve years. 

07/19/2010

Regarding loss of benefits or reduction in pay rates. Companies around the country deal with cost cuts in different ways. Some choose to do salary cuts for all employees. Some choose staff layoffs. Some choose to leave open vacancies from attrition. What has Lake Forest chosen? Review the positions and pay rates and you will learn.

07/19/2010

My, this seems to be a volatile subject. Accusations without substantiated facts are easy to make, but lack merit. Case in point, the board member's brother in law's unfounded and unsubstantiated accusations made during the member's comments part of the last stated meeting, about the GM's performance. The incompetence, and lack of knowledge of this "slate" of non-user board members should make residents wary of giving away their votes to those that come to their house (read Leib, Dubose, Martin ) with photocopied pre-marked ballots.

07/16/2010

No, No...Mitch your forgetting that you are dealing with a group of people that are appearantly living in la-la land. Heck - pay raises for everyone and company cars all around. Yes, give the manager a free house that would be great. Nevermind that were going broke. BACK TO REALITY! Have the employees had to take any pay cuts, loss of benefits or slashing of benefits? To my knowledge the answer to that is no. Most everyone in the USA has had to take pay cuts and suffered loss of benefits or cutting back of their benefits (if they were lucky enough to keep thei r jobs) - even government employees --- WHY NOT HERE? WHY? Reward lack of (good) performance - Yes that works well. Most failing Corporations try to find the root of the problem and fix it - here we just pretend its all ok.

07/16/2010

Our management is actually very underpaid compared to industry averages. The golf pro at CC of Mobile started his first day at over 90k. The avg pay for a superintendent at a 27 hole private club in Alabama is over 100k. In a lot of places superintendents are also given houses on the course.

  Comparing Lake Forest pay rates to those of the most exclusive country clubs around is a little unrealistic don't you think?

07/15/2010

WOW! Such knowledge from anonymous individuals here about extreme salaries, benefits, and other "waste" within the organization. The financials are there, the numbers are available. I challenge this individual to cite specific cases of waste and excess benefits. It is easy to say it is too much, but much more difficult to prove the amounts are at great variance to some average for the industry or across the county/state. I suspect what we see here is nothing more than a full fledged case of ignorance. Prove your accusations, Mr. anonymous. Better yet, the $12,500 is well spent if it will put to rest ignorant accusations like this. Oh, I can't wait to hear that someone has "gotten to" Vision when there is no waste or excess pay or benefits listed in their reports. This should be good!

  Actually, the previous contributor signed his name to his submission.  Your ole' weblord chose not to publish it.

07/15/2010

Jeez...$12k is a really tincy-tiny amount of money in the scheme of things considering that our association grosses over &2million of which well over $1million goes to "employee salaries and FULL benefits" and some of the rest is in my opinion being mismanaged and is somewhat unaccounted for. What if the residents really knew the EXTREME SALARIES and benefits of certain employees / must be nice to get a company car and or car allowance (reimbursement). A allowance that is high enough to pay BMW payments. I have seen the real figures and it is sickening! If the other residents could see this too they would have pitchforks and be coming after certain peoples heads! You know it's true. Is that why you are scared? The $12k figure you posted, to my knowledge wasn't public knowledge, so I am assuming you are either one of the opposing board members or were fed that by one of the 3 board members or the mgr always trying to stir people up. A third unaffiliated party needs to come in and do a full audit. Now whether that can peacefully be done by VISION MGMT company or the State has to be involved - only time will tell. AND - Don't DARE forget (OUR) promise of a possible lawsuit(s). We have been patiently waiting to see how all of this plays out. I know several people that are itching and ready to go! We just want the BS stopped! 

  Granted, my knowledge about salaries has become dated, since I have not been involved at all in over five years, but unless there have been significant changes in the salary structures in the LFPOA, no one there would be considered over paid.  Car allowances, benefit packages and so on are simply different forms of compensation.  One can try and convey a sense of corruption by using statements like "high enough to pay BMW payments", but that does not necessarily mean that anything really inappropriate is going on.  The board of directors has ultimate responsibility for such matters and it really makes no difference whether the day to day management is done by a capable employee or an outside management company. The buck stops with them. A financial audit of the LFPOA by an outside, independent accounting firm has been conducted every year for many years.

07/15/2010

07/14/2010

I hear the board on a 5 to 4 vote decided to spend the $12,500 to get the outside management group to do their "study". If this "slate" had ever been involved prior to their election they would already know the issues. It won't take a crystal ball to see the outcome of this "study".

  Unfortunately, most people who have been around Lake Forest for a while know what a difficult and usually unappreciated job a director has.  They have seen how small groups of members for their own selfish reasons have brutalized directors in the past.  It's really no wonder that those who "have ever been involved" avoid serving in Lake Forest like the plague.

07/09/2010

We love the pools just wish they were colder... seems like every time we go the water is so hot..

  Not much chance of that, since they're all exposed to this hot south Alabama sun.  It's just great that we have them.

07/09/2010

Mitch, there was a post here citing very specific city code violations for such a landscape business run from a home. It was also sent to the Mayor. The code enforcement officer is aware of the specific violations this type activity presents. Members should call and request city action. Call your council member if it doesn't get attention.

07/09/2010

Mitch much of what you printed about the enforcement of the covenants and the responsibility for enforcement was true.  State law forbids city governments from enforcing the covenants of a PUD.  If in fact the violation is one involving the Land Use Ordinance or any other city Ordinance then the city can and should get involved.  For covenant violations the Arch. Committee has the authority and power to enforce.  It does take time and fortitude however.  It takes a strong committee of three board members with the resolve to protect the spirit of the Covenants.  As for expensive the covenants provide for the recapture or all expenses and reasonable attorney fees.  Taking people to court is harsh but within the rules and EFFECTIVE.  All that is needed is a committee versed in the covenants with the fortitude to do the job.

  ALL of what I printed is true, thank you very much!  The contributor, an old friend of mine, is correct, though.  In order for the City of Daphne to become involved, there must be a violation of an ordinance.  They cannot and will not do anything about covenant violations.  For example, if a neighbor is keeping a boat in his driveway, don't bother calling the city.  As far as they are concerned, that is OK since it does not violate any city ordinance.  On the other hand, the issue the previous contributor reported, operating a business out of a home, is a violation of a zoning ordinance.

07/08/2010

As noted previously "when you buy a home in Lake Forest, you sign on the dotted line to be responsible and obligated to the POA" - what happens when the POA is not responsible and shows no obligation to the owners/members? May a lien also be placed on the Board for failure to comply with said contract? I doubt it. I have paid all dues and special assessments since the day I moved in, but where is the Board when you need them? I had trouble with a landscaping business operating out of a home on my block, with all the noise, big trucks, illegal employees, etc. I spoke to the owner, without a change, wrote letters and made telephone calls to the Board, without results, and finally got the City involved and the problem ceased for all of a couple of months. It has started again and I know it is useless to ask the Board to do their duty and enforce the rules and regulations. Perhaps Lake Forest has just outgrown the Board's ability to manage anything.

  The Architectural Committee, which is independent to a great extent from the LFPOA Board of Directors, is the body responsible for addressing the situation you describe.  By independent I mean that other than appointing the members of the committee, the board has no authority to overrule or circumvent the committee regarding architectural issues. The authority of the Architectural Committee is defined in the covenants, as is that of the LFPOA board.  The problem for the committee is that they have no enforcement teeth.  They can write letters to inform a resident of violations and they can sue the resident if he or she does not comply.  The process is time consuming and expensive.  The easiest and most effective thing they can do is get the city involved, if the issue also happens to a violation of a city ordinance.  The City of Daphne does have teeth.  They can fine and they can even put people in jail for violations.  The Architectural Committee also recently started fining violators, but in the opinion of this writer, such an action is beyond their legal authority and sooner or later someone is going to force the issue in court themselves.  It is unfortunate that you had such a problem.  It would seem that if someone had informed of you what you just read, you could have saved time and found a solution much quicker.  You should not give up, however.  If the problem has arisen again, I would encourage you to take the matter directly to the City Code Enforcement Officer, who is a member of the Daphne Police Department.  Operating a business like that in Lake Forest is a clear violation of zoning ordinances and they will do something about it.

07/07/2010

Thats not the way the active duty incident went down. I can assure you there is a lot more to it.

7/06/2010

I find it particularly troubling when the uninformed make statements like.."This to get the board attention , so they will give the power to run this subdivision back to the people that live here. Like it was designed to do from the beginning." The power is in choosing board members that think the way we do, want the things we want, and will vote for them. Everyone should realize that ORIGINALLY the board had all the power. It must be that way or we see the result...declining amenities and property values. When the "people" usurped the board's ability to invest and maintain, the decline was inevitable.

07/06/2010

One of our golf course maintenance guys was called to active duty with the Reserves.  When he returned the GM told him that his job had been eliminated.  Is that legal?

07/06/2010

Your old weblord has been on vacation, so some of these posts are a little old.

07/06/2010

Let's see..a management company to tell us that we need to invest in declining buildings and common properties? Not necessary, everyone knows this already. A management company to tell us that we are under utilized and need more participation? Again, not needed, we already know that. A management company to change accounting techniques or reporting efforts? We pay an auditor every year to review our accounting and the past years' reports indicate that all is accounted for properly, again, not needed. A management company to tell us that we should either sell or lease the Yacht Club, which is the key to Clint's proposal?? HMMMMM..I think I see where this is going. A silly exercise to be overridden by common sense. Let's just hope that we don't invest too much in the decision.

Lake Forest has tried an outside management firm in the past without success.  If they think they have a management problem, then perhaps they should hire a new manager as an employee.

07/06/2010

Like any other business, any thing that can't support itself should not exist. If the golf course or the yacht club or anything else can't support itself, it means there's not enough interested people here to keep it. Taking money from everyone to support things like golf that only some of the people want is a crime.  Just like raising dues or taking special acessments without a vote from everyone that will be paying is a crime. This is why the talk of a Tea Party is growing. With the members thoughts, of everybody involved in it stopping paying the dues all at once. This to get the board attention , so they will give the power to run this subdivision back to the people that live here. Like it was designed to do from the begining. And if not the money will soon be gone and so will they.

Everyone who purchased property in Lake Forest was informed of the obligations and responsibilities associated with owning property in the deed restricted development before committing to the purchase.  The time to refuse to honor those obligations is before one signs on the dotted line, not afterward.  Not paying the legal charges will only result in a lien and damage to one's credit.  This is not a good solution.