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09/29/2010

The board had said the contract with Vision would be in place by Oct 1. Which means, essentially that really soon, the employees we have that are to be replaced by Vision will be let go. This will also mean that severance packages must be paid for with cash. Having been involved with the board for several years, I know that cash flow is down during this time. I am pretty sure that is still the case. How will we pay for the severance? It would make sense to me, if the board had any forethought to their plan, that the implementation would be delayed until January 01, 2011. January is when all annual fees are mostly paid and the cash flow is the strongest. The severance packages, which mean a standard notice, plus accrued vacation time, could conceivably cost tens of thousands of dollars. Will the board borrow more money to effect the transition? This also brings up another concern that appears to be overlooked by the board. That is the transitional cost for accounting functions. IS this part of the $225,000 fee, OR EXTRA? Everyone should realize that Vision took over for a Florida company, S&S Golf Management. This firm set up and managed their existing client base as developers. Have they ever taken over one? An association in Alabama, even? I hope the board has this under control. Just a warning: The early indications say the transitioning to the Vision deal will be a cluster@*($! It is being managed by George Lieb's people. You know, the folks who just show up for meetings.

09/27/2010

Amen to that, Mitch. We do need more of our members spending money at our facilities. That being the case, there should be clauses in a management contract that seek to increase member utilization. I did not attend the presentation from Hampton Golf, a management company that was supposedly considered as well, but I have heard that they are excellent at marketing facilities and had planned dedicated staff for member activities that would drive up utilization. Since they were not hired, I am assuming that Vision has a plan to increase users and not just increase members' dues. Of course, the openness of the Vision hiring has answered all our questions about them and their management objectives as well as contract terms and conditions. We have seen absolutely very little or none of the contract terms. We saw their original proposal and their report *snicker* about the bad management that got us here. What about the contract and its terms? What performance standards are expected? What performance goals must be met??

09/27/2010

State Rest, Mr. Kirby, your answer suggest that you "really don't" spend much time or money at the club. I spend between four and five hundred a month there (including dues, golf, eating, etc.) as do many of those associated with the "A" team do. So, who do you think has the most interest in seeing LFPOA be successful?

  We need more members like you, both in terms of the money spent and just being good folks.  By the way, that was my fault.  The EK, Ed Kirby at the end was an attempt to remind our readers who you were talking about.  Ed did not write that.  Your friend, the weblord, wrote it.

09/27/2010

Mitch, I think you need to define "a lot of time and money". I seldom see him (EK) and I'm thinking of joining AA from hanging in the two facilities so much. :>)

  More time and money than me, wise guy!  Call me if you need a ride to the meetings. :-) Note: The EK reference was Ed Kirby

09/27/2010

Here is more information (large file, be patient) on the Golf Tournament for Daphne baseball.  Registration Form.

09/27/2010

The “Reform Party” has levied accusations that the A-Team is against professional management. Nothing could be further from the truth. The A-Team supports any, repeat ANY, improvement in the management of Lake Forest. For thirty years this community has had essentially no Leadership. A Board of members serving three year terms making decisions that last a lifetime. That being said, the A-Team is most assuredly against how Vision Golf was hired. A no open bid process with a contract that stipulates no performance measures voted on by a board literally weeks before a new board is elected. That is shameful!

  That is an exaggeration in my opinion.  We have had some good leadership over the years.  Also, that decision to hire Vision was discussed for several months and the contract was made public both here and on the official Lake Forest website for all members to read.  A director is elected for a three year term and, therefore, should be expected to make decisions for the entire time.  We may not like some of those decisions and our recourse is to not re-elect directors with whom we disagree.  However, the fact remains that directors are elected to make those kinds of decisions for the community.  This contribution came from one of the members of the A-Team slate.  All candidates are welcome to use this website to promote their campaign.

09/24/2010

Mitch,

Please post information about Daphne Baseball Golf Tournament to be held at the LF Golf Club on November 7, 2010. There will be great prizes and fun stuff on the course. The baseball program needs our members’ support.

Thanks,

John Peterson

Daphne Baseball Diamond Club President

09/24/2010

Still involved very much, Mitch. In fact, served as a member of the technical committe for the coalition. In that role, helped to develop the priority list for projects. This list has the D'Olive Stream restoration as a very high priority project. I still support the Coalition and its work. Our county's watersheds are literally being destroyed. With key projects and programs this coalition could provide to municipalities, we could see a great improvement in water quality over time. Many people want to say we are creating a beauracracy. In reality, the legislation requires that 80% of all funds be put into projects that benefit the watersheds all over the county. These could help eliminate flooding, keeps roads from washing out, and decrease erosion in our streams. I will definitely be one vote in favor of this! -John Peterson

09/24/2010

  I made an error in my contribution regarding the referendum coming up in the November election regarding the watershed.  I said that our congressional delegation had taken ownership.  That was incorrect.  Our excellent State Legislator, Randy Davis has taken ownership.  I'm a little surprised that John Peterson hasn't joined me on this one.  John was deeply involved in the issue at one time.

09/24/2010

The A-Team is a group of users that are at the facilities. They don't need tricks to sell their campaign. They are amenity supporters and users. Many believe that a board made up of non-users would be a tragedy. They have already divested themselves of the amenities, so closing or getting rid of them would be easy. Reform group candidates.. do they utilize anything?

  Actually, my friend Ed Kirby spends a lot of time and money at the Yacht Club and also the 19th Hole.  Does that count?

09/24/2010

Mitch, you should really clear up the whole issue of how and when members became in control of dues setting authority. The original association by-laws clearly left that power with the board. It was done in a 1982 executive committee meeting, which was neither a board decision or a vote of the members. It was a few rogue board members acting illegally. This fact alone renders the original action illegal. Now, to claim that a legitimate parliamentary action to restore the by-laws to their founding is somehow illegal stupifies me. You do know the board that did that had a legal opinion that supported that move, right? So to claim anything that was fully vetted, supported by legal opinion, and done in accordance with parliamentary procedure was illegal is being disingenuous. It was also the right thing to do to re-establish the board as the ultimate authority in dues setting. Vision has even agreed that this is the proper way to manage the association. In fact, they are suggesting re-writing the by-laws to do just that regardless. So, your continuing to claim that this is illegal is wrong and does nothing but create distrust of the board from the members. BTW, I agree that one who is opposed to dues increases cannot honestly support the Vision plan or their management contract. Thank you for the forum. -John Peterson

  Although I was a member in 1982, I was not involved in the property owners political maneuverings at that point, so I don't know anything about the chain of events you describe.  It is interesting to me that directors in 2005 - 2008 were so desperate to find a way to gain control of those dues that they would pour through records for over twenty years looking for anything that would allow them to do it.  My guess is that some sort of statute of limitations would have made the issue a moot point legally anyway.  As for the suggestion that a "legitimate parliamentary action" was used to restore the by-laws, that is probably wrong also.  In order to rescind a previous action of a board normally requires that at least someone who was actually on the board that passed the action and who voted for the action in the first place make the motion to rescind.  Lawyers will argue any side of an issue that their client wants them to argue, so your legal opinion is only slightly interesting.  You may be on to something, though.  Mrs. Pelosi can simply have her majority rescind the 1st and 2nd amendments to the constitution.  They could then shut Fox News up for good and not have to worry about those nasty old guns.  Of course, that might cause problems for websites like this one too.

09/10/2010

Deceitful? A-Team? That is a laugh. Deceitful is when you run a campaign against dues increases and place the largest increase in history. Deceitful is when you promise transparency and openness and meet at director's homes under cover. Deceitful is claiming that other management firms were "considered" before selecting Vision. Deceitful is claiming that 95% of all dues goes to salaries. Deceitful practices in the LFPOA are clearly those of the so-called lakeforestreform.com bunch.

  There are getting to be so many slates running around these days, that I am beginning to become confused about who we are talking about.  For some reason, I thought the A-Team was the slate supported by Ray and the golfers.  In one respect I tend to agree with the contributor.  I wish factions would stop using the term "reform" to represent themselves.  There is nothing to reform.  There is simply a need for intelligent decision making for our community.

09/22/2010

Ed kirby is a fine guy, but how can you be for Vision Golf and against a dues increase? You would have to hire them and then ignore their five year plan.

  Plans sometimes have to be modified.  The bottom line at this point is that it still takes a vote of the directors to raise dues.  (Even that was accomplished illegally). We should not forget that directors are dues paying members too.  If, as some of our readers believe, the current crop of directors don't want to support the amenities, how does it compute that they will raise dues on themselves without a real good reason.

09/21/2010

  There will be a referendum on the November 2nd ballot that addresses the issue of maintaining the watershed.  We all know how these things usually go, when they ask us to vote to increase taxes, a big thumbs down.  However, we are talking about something that might only cost us 20 or 30 bucks a year. That money will be used to finally do something about the awful storm drainage problem, that we have been complaining about for at least two decades.  People in Lake Forest for purely selfish reasons should get behind this referendum.  Our lake has been a victim for years and no one from the city to the state has been willing to help us with it.  Now, we have a congressional delegation actually taking ownership of the problem and offering a solution.

09/21/2010

Mitch this may be to racy / controversial for your site. I understand if you don't put it up. But, it is true and it should certainly bring questions! Mitch and others...please notice that as of 11:45am Wednesday (right now) the LAKE FOREST "A-TEAM" website is down and is not working??? I don't know if anyone happened to notice that their original site was being hosted off of the MOBILE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE web site / web server. the original address where you could find the original site was www.mobilechamber.com/ateam ==== THIS MEANS (for those that don't know) the Mobile Chamber was hosting their site. www.mobilechamber.com - is the main domain name on their server and .... /ateam is a subfolder under their main domain and server. WHY WAS THIS HAPPENING? Most people probably did not notice this because when you typed their web address in that is on their sign, which is, www.lakeforestateam.com you were just shown their web site. They were running what is called a "stealth redirect" & "domain cloaking". KINDA HIGH-TECH FOR SOME local guys just RUNNING IN A NON-PROFIT NEIGHBORHOOD ELECTION. Whats up A-TEAM seems kinda deceitful and what is the MOBILE CHAMBER"S BUSINESS IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD?? VIEW THE VIDEO PROOF>> Go to youtube.com and type "lake forest a team" in the search box. Or here are the links to the two(2) videos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je_sswr78H4& and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sREtH7KKaE8

  I don't see the point.  What difference does it make where the group hosts their page?  One of them probably has a friend on the Chamber, who let them have a little temporary space.  I doubt that the Mobile Chamber gets anything out of it one way or the other.

09/21/2010

Driving through the neighborhood yesterday, I noticed that board election signage is at an all time high. One group, supposedly for reform, backs the candidates that ran on "NO DUES INCREASE" and yet have set in stone annual increases for the next five years. They also seem to support selling the yacht club, or even giving it away.Can we afford for them to get more power on the board? Say NO to reform candidates this year. I know I will not vote for another one.

  I know one of the candidates on that reform sign, Ed Kirby.  I can't speak for the other two, but I can assure you that Ed has no interest in raising dues or selling the Yacht Club.  He is interested in good management for Lake Forest.

09/20/2010

I am sure he knew it was coming but wasn't that a classy way to fire our GM - let him read about it in the paper! Also, on another subject, that is going to be one disappointed gentleman when he finds that Lake and does he know "you" are an Auburn fan???

  Was he fired?  I was also told that we actually haven't had a general manager since Toni left; that he is in fact still the golf pro.  Also, the writer seemed to be a person of taste and character and would certainly be happy to know that I am an Auburn fan.  War Eagle!!

Hi Mitch, 

Don’t think we’ve met but checking out about the results of the voting at LFPOA this past Thursday took me to the main website. However, for some reason, I decided to look at your site as well  and want you to know that I THOROUGHLY ENJOYED YOUR PHOTOS. Don’t know how many there are but I must have seen 40-50. I also liked your fish used for going forward and backward instead of the usual arrows. You are obviously a creative person who seems to enjoy life.

 The main reason I am writing this to you is to find out the directions of HOW YOU GET TO THAT LAKE? It is so pretty and I don’t remember seeing anything like it here in LF before.

 Thank you for responding.

  Thanks for your nice comments.  The lake is located behind most of the houses on the right as you come in the Home Depot entrance until you get to the second bridge.  It is also behind several of the businesses in the shopping center.  It is right behind Wings and across the street from the Rave Theatre.  You can get to the dam by going between the right section and the rear section of the shopping center.

09/20/2010

What? No meeting report? I know they voted for Vision 6-3, read it in the paper. Any other news?

  Interesting isn't it?  Nobody submitted one.

09/20/2010

Please think about a % reduction in property owner fees if the owner pays the whole year with the first billing. You would save money on postage, paper, labor and have more up front $ in the bank. Thanks

09/20/2010

You know, with the board including Jim Moss it's a joke. Thanks to the board for destroying Lake Forest as a wonderful place to live. Vision can't do what they say.

09/17/2010

What happen with the Y2k group? For those of us that did live here back then. Thanks!

  It is history.  It was the second generation of so-called reform.  There never has been a successful reform movement in Lake Forest and there never will be.  True reform is reasonable and intelligent men and women working together to find a common solution.  The group this year is a failure, the group during the Y2K days was a failure and the group in the earlier 80s was a failure.  Success will never be achieved when you have little factions squabbling with each other like a bunch of cats.

09/17/2010

Reading through some past posts (see below). This is exactly why I recently purchased a home in another subdivision and not Lake Forest. My dues are only $10 a month. The neighborhood is well kept and I can see where my dues are going. When I first moved to this area 10 years ago there wasn't many options to find a home in Daphne except Lake Forest. Look now. All I can say is Thank god she got the house! Everyone who purchased property in Lake Forest was informed of the obligations and responsibilities associated with owning property in the deed restricted development before committing to the purchase. The time to refuse to honor those obligations is before one signs on the dotted line, not afterward. Not paying the legal charges will only result in a lien and damage to one's credit. This is not a good solution.

  Hope you enjoy your new home.

09/16/2010

Lakeforestreform?? Sounds eerily similar to the Y2K group that sought to destroy Lake Forest before. I find it quite funny that the document reads " Investigating the matter, we cannot find proof that the board had the authority to raise membership dues. Authority to establish dues resides with a majority vote of the membership at the annual meeting. " Later in the same document, it reads "The Board of Directors needs the power to determine the dues and special assessments. Limits can be established for both but remember the true annual dues should be determined by the true operational costs of the association including reserves. The board of directors needs more borrowing power to address the current declining conditions." Do I see increased debt and higher dues on the horizon?? And this from candidates elected on the campaign promise of NO DUES INCREASE! WAKE UP PEOPLE!!! Go through and read that the golf course maintenance budget is 30-40% lower than what would be standard for the course of similar size. (AN increase of $220,000 to meet their standard!) Read all the times that lack of financial resources is listed as a problem with the facilities maintenance. To solve this Vision is recommending a reduction in golf fees, our number one revenue source??? Free swimming and tennis?? So we are to believe that this will create even more revenue? It is clear that the real mission of Vision is to be able to set the dues themselves, through a willing board, with no accountability. They will add dues until they are providing all the capital reserves, all the maintenance money, and all the money they need to manage the place from Florida! And now these same people are asking us to vote additional candidates that will "protect your dues authority" among many other catchy lines they don't mean.

09/16/2010

Mitch, I am most certain that I read "somewhere" that the pending contact with Vision could be canceled without cause by either party giving 6 mos. notice. I can't find it now. Would you or one of your contributors know?

09/16/2010

Mitch, there is another document that you may have not seen either. It is a rather important one, it is basically the details of Vision's walk through, audit and findings. For some reason the fine people at the LFPOA office didn't activate the link to this information - I can only guess that they didn't want anyone to read it. Feel free to copy and paste it to your site! It is on the front page in the right hand column under "recent news" titled VISIONS AUDIT and SIGNIFICANT FINDINGS - it is their operational review of our "business & management" Sincerely, lakeforestreform.com

  That's a very attractive website.

09/16/2010

  The documents found at this link came in yesterday.  I'm not sure what they are supposed to be telling us.  Perhaps one of you readers can figure it out.

09/16/2010

Its no time for blame or sit back and curse. Action needs to be counted more than words! As responsible resident of the neighborhood we all are concerned with uprising association cost (includes those too who support the rise but feel helpless and only way to meet the expenses). Point is its good to have a vintage car in your garage but you won't like to do your groceries or daily rides on it! right now we are facing a similar situation...financial fact is like vintage car beared by us and we are trying to meet annual deficit thats growing every year despite all increment. Sometime back I asked the revenue department to provide details of breakup charges of Association fee...which wasn't answered, well understood on my part that it went to maintain hefty employee cost. I very well appreciate the volunteer efforts of reliable residents and have few suggestions to the committee regarding same. There is always a way out to a problem, needs certain expertise advocacy and some considerable reformation. Golf course, Yatch club etc could be maintained with a team effort. For example, open up the 'summer jobs' for lake forest residents for pool maintenance or 'volunteers call' for tennis lessons for beginners for free, award and recognition for volunteers including amenities benefit such as once a month free golf for the volunteers. Team work is what we need...our ideas are implicable only if we want to benefit ourselves long run as a part of same community.

09/08/2010

The loan against the Yacht Club has been there for a very long time. The club has not been debt free for some time. 2012 is a five-year balloon date. To say the "bank will call the loan" is probably not an accurate statement.  If the board refuses to address the fact that expenses will continue to climb due to inflation, cost of goods , etc., while revenues have been flat, then there is a concern the bank will not want to continue the loan. Why would a bank re-write a loan to company that operates in the red as the LFPOA is close to doing. The board should recognize that the members will not support dues increases, regardless of management structure. That is why the developer, as most associations formed do, set the organization up so that the board could determine the dues rates based on needs to fund the operations, reserves, and debt service. We should keep it that way and place our faith in the BOD to keep the LFPOA solvent through proper revenue setting measures. To think that our "heading to bankruptcy" is anything other than the members tying the hands of both the board and management is being naive or dishonest. It is just as silly to think that "professional management" will turn our facilities into highly utilized and revenue producing entities. The management structure that is in place is one of necessity. It is not ideal for our community. To set up the ideal management structure would require more funds. The dilemma for us will be whether more funds would allow changes in our current management structure, utilizing the professionals already here, to be more successful; or whether more funds and a change to remote accounting and off-site management will lead to a more efficient and better system. There are pros and cons to each. Maybe we should explore the pros and cons of the Vision and other management proposals as they relate to member responsiveness and member services.

09/08/2010

09/03/2010

The neighborhood has been on the path to bankruptcy long before I moved here! The $500,000.00 of debt which is leveraged against the Yacht Club and will be called in by the bank in 2012 (with no current reserve fund set up to pay the debt down) happened long before I got involved. I didn't cause these things. I understand that some of you are upset because I have called some of you out on things. Believe it or not I absolutely want what is best for the neighborhood I will be raising my family in and am fully prepared to help work on the current situation we are in. I am just letting some of you know as I have said that I DO know the behind the scenes slanderous things that are being said. Seems like everyone would be pulling together to solve the problem and not fighting against each other. That doesn't make sense to me. Can't help but notice you haven't disputed what I posted earlier? I will just have to assume you also know what is going on.

09/03/2010

Boy . . . and I thought women were catty . . . you men take the cake!!! The simple truth is, whether you are wearing rose colored glasses or not, Lake Forest is the largest subdivision in the largest county east of the Mississippi . . . it cannot be managed on a few peoples' whims year after year . . . hasn't worked the past 18 years I've lived here and won't work the next 18 years. What Lake Forest needs is professional management and, unfortunately, sometimes that means having to downsize, reduce, let go, fire and/or reorganize. Those are the simple facts of business life. Managing a restaurant is totally different than managing a golf course which is totally different than managing a yacht club. You need a comprehensive business plan and cohesiveness. Change is not easy - especially for those who don't want it . . . but the world does go on and so will Lake Forest. I only hope there is a Lake Forest here in the future.

09/03/2010

Mr. Hamilton, You state that "I live here and feel that my money is currently being wasted -or spent unwisely. " Now, here is my problem with you and the board that thinks this way. Businesses are not run on feelings! They are run on facts and numbers. Get the facts or be quiet. Your "feelings" are produced by a lack of facts.. not the actual facts. My advice is to get over your feelings, get prepared and work to know what is happening, and not decide things on rumors or feelings. My "feeling" is that you are out to ruin the LFPOA and send us to bankruptcy...so I guess I am right?? John Peterson

09/03/2010

Mr. or Mrs. anonymous, I am not disputing that he a great asset to the community. I'm sure he has been since 1978. I'm sure on a personal level he is also a fine upstanding person. No arguments from me on any of that. I can tell you think that he is the next best thing since sliced bread, he has hung the moon in your eyes and probably in that of others. Congrats on your wonderful friendship! But, whether he is a wonderful asset or not isn't really the subject matter here. The subject or issue is that he has been spreading false information throughout the community, to keep people stirred up. Sure you and some some others will blindly believe what you hear, after all, he wouldn't dare stretch the truth, how could he - he hung the moon. I can't help but notice you didn't dispute any of what I said in my previous post. Perhaps you know it's true! Everything I have written on this forum is absolutely 100% true. Whether you or others believe it or not is, frankly, your problem! So you said that I have blown the value of my opinion with you -- do you really think I care?? Unfortunately for you I doubt that I will be dropping out of the Lake Forest business. I live here and feel that my money is currently being wasted -or spent unwisely. As soon as that problem is fixed I will GLADLY drop out of (our) business. SO - FIX THE PROBLEM! You guys just keep making want to get more involved in our neighborhood's business :-) I know some people are lying and I smell a rat...jeez I really would really love to find that rat! Please explain to me why The gentleman we are speaking of was called out in public by one of his fellow board members, specifically for distributing False information to the public and to his friends. Can you do that for me. If he is such a fine person, he would not be spreading lies. Just know that sometimes your private conversations are not all that private. So be careful what you say! Wes Hamilton

  The contributor is not anonymous.  Your old Weblord knows him.  I would prefer that everyone be like that, so we could all discuss and not take it personal.  Also, I don't think the guy who is the subject of your conversation has been here since '78.  That would be the contributor, himself.

09/03/2010

I agree with the assessment of Mr. "S" (Ray Sturch) contribution to this community. There are very few days that I go to clubhouse that he isn't there. As opposed to not once seeing any of last years slate or Martin. How do any of these board members have any idea what's going on when they are non-users of any of the amenities. Instead of listening to rumors, and those that have their personal agendas like Mr. "L", I suggest anyone who has questions about the operations at Lake Forest they go to Mr. "S" or the GM, or controller and discuss what's going on. A concept that appears to have eluded the vocal contributor as well as the majority of the board.

09/02/2010

Mr.Hamilton, Mr."S" has been one the most valuable assets to this community since I have lived here and that dates back to 1978. Therefore, your comments have just blown the value of your opinion with me. I would suggest you get on with your business, whatever it is, and drop out of that of Lake Forest along with your Mother-in-Law.

  I hope you guys know who you are talking about, because at this point I don't have a clue.

09/02/2010

As much as I would like to take the bait I’m afraid this is not the proper venue. Let me just say, though, that through my business I have had the opportunity to service many people in Lake Forest. Some of those people are in the “golfing” groups. Many of those people I am now friends with. As you stated my mother in law is VP of the current board. OK—so, basically I have somewhat of an inside tract to the workings of the community, as I get to hear information from both sides. If you remember back to the last winter board meetings a gentleman, who is a golfer, would consistently jump up and say to the board that he had been hearing of “rumors” floating around, yet he would never get specific about what exactly these rumors were. As fate would have it I soon found out what the rumors were. How you may wonder…When I have serviced some of these nice folks and they find out I live in Lake Forest, this inevitably leads into conversations about what is happening in our community. Generally, I listen to what they have to say. They tell me what they know or what they have heard the future plans are. Generally, what they have heard is going to happen is absolutely horrible and off the wall and generally ends with something along the line of Mrs. Hampton (the VP) and Clint Martin (the President) are initiating all of this bad stuff.. Naturally at the end of the conversation I interject that I am related to the VP – in some cases people have asked me to leave their property, basically over their unneeded hatred towards my mother in law. But, in every single case I have been able to calm the people down and tell them what is really happening and what I know, and generally end up talking for hours over various things and we are now friends. When I ask these folks where they are getting their false information from I get the exact same answer every time. They are being fed this false, negative, damning information from “Mr. S” and from the GM. Also in the past from another board member who has since changed his stance. WHY IS THIS HAPPENING? WHY ARE THEY RUNNING A (FEAR) SMEAR CAMPAIGN? This is really pretty childish BS. Two board meetings ago before the release of the Vision documents, if you were at the meeting, you will remember the president asking “Mr. S” not to release the old documents as they were not finalized yet and to quit stirring people up with false information. “Mr. S” response was he didn’t care; he would do as he pleased. So, obviously other people know of the problems that have been happening also. I can’t go into detail over what I have been told, because it may unintentionally give up the identities of the people I know and I don’t want that to happen. Let just me say that having an employee feed untrue information to certain members of the community is pathetic, and in it’s self should warrant immediate dismissal. Some of you people reading this know what I am saying is 100% true. OK—That’s the last I have to say on this topic as I feel I have now totally beat it to death.  Wes Hamilton

09/01/2010

09/01/2010

Mr. Hamilton, You say that you have so many other people that feel the same as you do. You. You make comments about the General Manager but you never show anything to back up what you say. Until you show anything to back up what you say then you are p---ing in the wind. I believe that your mother in law is writing most of your comments for you.

  Oh, I don't think so.

09/01/2010

Incompetence: The inability or lack of legal qualification or fitness to discharge the required duty. Wes says someone is incompetent. He needs to provide a specific instance where this is shown or exhibited. Let's get to the specific. Surely, you do not mean that because we are in bad financial condition, he must be incompetent? Surely there is a specific instance of a "lack of ability to discharge his duty". Bring it on Mr. Hamilton, let's see just how much you know about the association and its management. Start laying it out! Show us how you reach your conclusion. This ought to be good..

  Have you ever heard the question "Be careful what you ask for?"  Even if he does respond to that, I may not post it.  There's a fine line to walk when talking about an employee's reputation.

08/31/2010

Berate (definition): to scold or condemn vehemently and at length. As used in a sentence= Courtesy of Merriam Webster Dictionary. I would not call what I said at the meeting "berating". I made a simple statement statement that he should be fired or step down due to what is in my personal opinion incompetence. I know plenty of other people inside our community and outside of our community share this same opinion. Problem is, though, that the majority of the people only say this in private because t hey don't want any problems or retaliation from anybody. I don't mind, so I said what is needed to be said. If there is an "elephant" in the room, I don't pretend like it isn't there. Considering that our administration is paid and paid well, then they are open for scrutiny -- We all pay their salaries, so technically they are our employees and should be treated as such. The employees are employees and not friends. That statement may be taken as harsh, but it is true. It seems somehow over time the employees have turned into friends of some people and, as such, have basically been allowed to run every aspect of the business without much oversight.  This may have contributed to our current condition. Most businesses and corporations (we are a corporation) don't really approve or allow the management to hang out with the customers or employees because this can lead to clouded judgment on everyone's part. If people in the community want to "berate" our VOLUNTEER board that is their business. I personally think the board is making positive progress so I have nothing to say about them at this time. For what it is worth, I own a local business and am familiar with payroll, financials, overhead, paying the bills, collecting money, financing myself and above all surviving in this gruesome economy. Wes Hamilton

  I do not agree with "Most businesses and corporations (we are a corporation) don't really approve or allow the management to hang out with the customers". Such association tends to bond the customer to the business.

08/30/2010

Couple of issues with the VP's son's ramblings. He doesn't want anyone pointing out the shortcomings of the current "slate" and the president, but it is perfectly ok for him to stand up and "berate" the GM at a stated meeting. However, I've never seen him give any examples of what exactly the GM and this administration has done or is doing that is against the "policies and procedures" prescribed by the "board". FYI that is what the board of directors is supposed to be doing according to the by-laws. I also feel compeled to point out that this "administration" has not been in place for "10 years" For 2 or 3 years the so called GM was a totally unqualified person hired from her previous position as an executive assistant at a car dealership. Those years were a major contributor to the lack of upkeep at all of the amenities. Rather than lawyers, insurance product sales people, and realtors, we need business people who understand financials, making payroll, and paying the bills.

The contributor being referred to is not a director's son.

08/27/2010

Mitch, When we presented the capital plan, or spending plan, as you put it, we worked to bring folks into the room. This past stated meeting, with no action items on the agenda, was very well attended. I was referring to a "typical meeting" of the board being attended by less than twenty folks most times. I do believe that the capital plan had 70 or so, at the most. Maybe the filling of that Yacht Club building wasn't that many, just a smaller venue. In any case, for a stated meeting with no action items on the agenda, that attendance was incredible.

08/27/2010

Unfortunately POA & Condo Association meetings can get contentious. One needs to know that when agreeing to serve. I sat through a 5 hour condo association meeting once that included a guy having a heart attack and us having to break for the paramedics. At one point I told a guy to sit down and shut up and got a standing ovation. It was my birthday and I was ready to get out of there. Serving in a position makes you hesitate to quickly criticize people who are volunteering their time.

Amen.

08/25/2010

08/25/2010

I disagree about the typical meeting. While LFPOA President, it was very rare to attract twenty people. In fact, we had meetings with as few as ten or less in the audience. What is the difference? I have my opinions about that as they relate to openness, communication, and overall confidence. Could be just disruption. But to see probably 50 or more there speaks volumes. We presented a detailed capital plan for the amenities in 2007 and had less in attendance than were there for this past board meeting. Someone has created distrust, animus, and even anger toward the board for there to be this type of crowd. True, there are some cases of rudeness and strong words. It could also be the venue that is the issue. When we held meetings at the 19th Hole, the Bayview was open, but I do not remember many belligerent speakers. And what is with the stop watch?? I mean really, to time members who are speaking seems a little bit absurd. There are some issues that take more than 2 or 3 minutes to cover. Wes, sorry about discussing the past, again. I know you hate to see this board compared to past ones. Senility kicking in, I guess. John Peterson

For Pete's Sake, John, you were standing at the front of the crowd in years past!  And, when your funding proposals were presented, you were facing pretty large groups of disturbed members yourself!  Maybe we both are being afflicted with a little dementia.

08/25/2010

Mitch, While I will agree that the facilities do lack some maintenance and care, perhaps the reasons we see for this are different. Please understand that as the GM mentioned, the budget for the place is the same as it was in 2003. You know and I know that certain items' cost have increased dramatically in our area. That list is long, but let's say that gasoline, energy, food, water, sewer, employee benefits, building insurance and even building materials have all seen a spike. So we must then accept that we will have less left over to invest in the facilities than we did in 2003, or even Jake's last year. And also what we have to invest, gets less done. Even you can stipulate that this is a factual reality. Moving forward from this.. Is it reasonable to expect the same result? Should we expect to have monies for repainting every space that needs it, re-tiling floors, replacing equipment and so on while continuing to improve or do certain necessary improvements? We did redo the halfway house this year. We re-structured the 19th Hole area to accommodate the activities from the Bayview and Clubhouse that was taken down. I believe the plan was to re-side the pro-shop building as well. Now, why put stain on siding you are planning to remove and replace? One key problem I have is that we use our maintenance guy, and have for years, to do remodeling or rebuilding. Well, while he is building a halfway house all day, how can we expect him to paint a door? While he is remodeling one place, how does he inspect the other facilities? I have always promoted the idea that we should hire contractors to do this work as described in a detailed scope proposal. Our facilities maintenance should be maintaining, not improving or rebuilding. When on the Buildings and Property Committee, we sought to change this, but again, costs were the issue. So basically, if we want projects done, we need to have someone besides facilities maintenance to do them. Let them do the "maintaining" they are paid to do. This will cost more to accomplish and we have no more.

I don't know how the 2003/2010 budgets compare.  I do seem to recall that the dues were increased from $27.50/month to $35/mo in October 2003, which would have increased revenues by a little over a quarter million dollars a year beginning in 2004.  The assessments had stopped, I believe, so that would have reduced that revenue increase to only around $100,000.  As you know, the assessments were started back up several years ago.  That adds another $150,000 in revenue.  It seems that I remember the board charged us an additional "fee" on top of the assessment a couple of years ago.  That would have been good for another 75 to 80 thousand dollars in income.  I think, the dues have been increased again this year.  I'm not sure about that, because the recent boards have seemed to have difficulty making up their minds.  In any event, I don't see how the budgets of then and now could be the same.  For the sake of argument, let's say they are.  The examples I mentioned in the previous contribution could have been funded by passing around the hat one afternoon at the 19th Hole.

08/24/2010

Mitch, Mr. Hamilton obviously makes some good points some of which are part of the reason I would never serve on the board. I'm afraid I might come out from behind the table. In fact, when you were President, I remember telling you that you were too nice. I couldn't believe some of the crap thrown at you and you continued to smile. On the flip side, however, I seriously doubt there is much difference in many of the HOA/POA meetings elsewhere, esp. if they are as large and have the mixture of income, goals, etc. that exist in LF. One other point, I would like to sign my name, otherwise I feel kind of "sneaky". H.W.Anonymous

I know who you are, so that's good enough.  Thanks for the kind words, but being too nice had nothing to do with it.  I just believed, and still believe, that members who pay their dues have a right to voice their opinion about the goings on in their association.  I also believed that arguing with some of them was spitting in the wind and I just didn't want to waste the time.  I will admit that a few of them were so self-serving, that they did not deserve the time of day.  On the whole, though, we ended up accomplishing a lot.  I can also tell you that not everyone who reads the Grapevine thinks I'm all that @#$%& nice.

08/24/2010

Thank's for the link to the old site, which resides on another domain I own -www.coastaltemplates.com. That site hasn't been updated since around september of last year. Hopefully the new one will be done soon. Mr. Pererson, to be fair to you, I don't know you personally and I am sure that you are a fine person (no sarcasm intended). I made that statement basically as a point. The intended point being that this name calling and drudging up old history really get us nowhere. It just @#$%& people off and causes hurt feelings. That being said I don't understand as a younger member of our community why some of you people just want to harp on the past. Let' move on. It is very disturbing attending the board meetings and watching what goes on in there. Let me set up a visual of a typical board meeting for those that do not get to attend. First off, it should be noted that rarely more than 20-30 people attend a normal meeting. Ok, so your at the meeting - the first two rows of people are the usual crowd of resident who are considerate people that show up to listen and talk. They are generally respectful people. They seem to want positive progression for our community. The back rows are generally comprised of men, primarily the select group I previously mentioned in another post, who are many times very disrespectful to certain members of the board acting like belligerent, drunk @#$%&. Some get up a take direct personal digs at primarily the president and the vice president. It's a real shame to have to watch it. Here recently a new member of our community ( who is also in his 30's) started attending the meetings, he was absolutely blown away by the utter dysfunction and in-fighting of the board and the crowd. He approached me and asked me what in the world kind of community he had moved into. I obviously said I don't know as I am still trying to figure that out for myself. OK --Now anyone can feel free to dispute what I have just said. Please tell me that I am wrong and just stirring up trouble. Just so you know I am the young guy that is a the meetings video recording the whole dysfunctional mess!! Unfortunately, I wasn't able to attend the last meeting, which I heard was a pathetic disgrace to our community. Too bad that I'm sure would have made a great YOUTUBE clip. I still trying to decide what to do with all of the other footage I have. Maybe if you could see yourself on YOUTUBE and many, many, many, many, many other places other places on the internet and possibly the press then you could see what @#$%& you are being. All of this is really so petty and uncalled for. What a shame. If you GUYS would quit drinking the "coolaid" from the GM and "Mr. S" and open your eyes you just might see the forest for the trees. Sincerely, Wes Hamilton

@#$%& is your old Weblord's expression. You can probably interpret the original text pretty easily. 

Wes' description of a typical board meeting hasn't changed in 30 years.  It's just new to him.  You can change the names and faces a little, and the topics a little, but the scenario is the spitting image of a meeting that you could be attending now or may have been attending in 1999.  Once the crowd was furious, when we were canning the golf pro to replace her with Steve Jernudd.  Another time the crowd wanted to restructure Lake Forest for Bob Underwood.  Another time the crowd wanted to get rid of that evil president.  Many of the same crowd, who wanted keep Steve from taking that lady pro's job, are just as upset that he may lose his job now.  Nothing changes, which probably explains why very few people attend.

08/24/2010

Maybe you should publish Wes' Site for all to see..Enjoy http://coastaltemplates.com

We have had that website on before.  I think it is a work in progress and not really ready for visitors.

08/24/2010

Mr. Hamilton.. I agree. I should have never been given leadership positions within the LFPOA. John Peterson

I wish you guys would quit signing these things.

08/24/2010

In regards to comment where this excerpt came from -"While there is disagreement in the actions of the GM and the way certain things are done for the association, does that mean that we "throw the baby out with the bath water". The answer is YES! That baby is a full grown money sucking machine who has been in charge for well over 10 years now and look at where we are now. If the "baby" hasn't made positive progress by now, which he hasn't, then why should he remain? Is he going to magically turn things around now? Not likely. We need some sort of professional management. Also, as some have said we probably will have to have some sort of dues increase to help facilitate a faster turn around. I agree with that totally. BUT--I do not support a dues increase with our current administration system set in place. I personally feel that if we keep our current system in place we would likely just be throwing our money down a hole. I know that I am not the only one that feels this way. BUT, if a competent professional outside management company came in, such as VISION, with an actual plan set in place, I would feel much more comfortable contributing more money to the community. No disrespect to the current LFPOA Board or ANY of the past LFPOA boards, but no one on our (unpaid volunteer boards) is really capable of handling to these complex problems that have been facing our community in the past and are now nearly out of control. Would any other corporation grossing 2 million dollars a year allow a volunteer board and unqualified management to run the show, unlikely. Also, why would a free board submit themselves to all of this unnecessary stress and pressure when the operations could possible be outsourced? If our operations could successfully be outsourced then that that would lift a huge amount of unneeded stress for our volunteer board. I know none of them signed up for the abuse that is now coming out of the woodworks. Just my thoughts, for what it is worth. Wes Hamilton

08/23/2010

"Those who ignore history are bound (or doomed) to repeat it." Said by many and grounded in the philosophies of Socrates, Plato, Aristotle and many others that followed. Mr. Hamilton, I may be crazy, but I ain't stupid! Bill Andrews (age 69)

I can vouch for that. ;-)

08/23/2010

In response to the writer regarding Geovera insurance . . . don't put all the blame on the insurance companies for the high price of "wind/hail" insurance - it is the "re-insurance" industry (insurance companies that insure insurance companies) that is driving up the prices. Re-insurance companies prepare the models and calculate the risk for insuring insurance companies . . . when a State Farm or Allstate stop offering "wind/hail" insurance, it is because they cannot afford the re-insurer's premiums. Most all of these re-insurance companies are "offshore" or in Europe - such as Lloyd's of London. Geovera, from my research, is self-insured and doesn't depend on the "re-insurance" industry. And, yes, if your house is "old" (mine is almost 18 years old) you will pay more for not having a roof less than 10 years old on it . . . I also have Geovera and my premium just went up almost $200/year . . . fortunately, I was able to refinance my home at a very low rate and am saving in mortgage payments about one-third of what I pay in insurance premiums annually. It may not be much, but it does help. I know not all people can do that. But, if you really want to do something about this "insurance" mess, pick up the phone and talk to your local/state/federal representatives such as Senator Ben Brooks and Senator Pittman . . . don't bother wasting your breath with the Alabama Dept of Insurance - they aren't going to make any changes any time soon since the head of the department is appointed by the governor as opposed to being elected by the people.

08/23/2010

There have been a number of recent contributions regarding the issue of management of the Lake Forest amenities, brought on by the proposal of a management company, Vision Golf, being considered presently.  However, the management issue is not new.  This writer, as the readers know, has been critical for several years.  Free and unrestricted discussion on the matter can only be good for our community.

The contributions on the issue of management have been focused on financial management alone, since, to read the comments of some of our contributors, finances are the only problem we have in Lake Forest.  However, your writer’s concern has never been limited to financial issues.  A good manager will take pride in the object of his responsibility.  If you walk into a business and find the place a mess, then you might consider that it is poorly managed.  I remember over the years driving up to the clubhouse on numerous occasions to see the former maintenance director, Kenneth Eggars, standing on a ladder spraying a fresh coat of stain on the building.  Stain is cheap, so lack of cash would not have been an excuse for a worn out looking building.  Our general manager at the time knew that, and he would not have accepted a 19th Hole that looks like ours has looked over the past few years.  When was the last time any of us saw our building being stained?  I hope someone writes in with facts to correct my perception that the siding has been poorly cared for.  Are there any missing cedar shingles on the building?  Our association just knocked down a huge building full of cedar shingles.  What would be the excuse for any shingles being missing?  Have you looked at the deck at the Yacht Club?  When was the last time that deck was stained?  Is anyone going to suggest that with its two and a half million dollars in revenue, our association cannot afford a little stain to make the Yacht Club look nice for its members?  Look around the eaves and windows at the Yacht Club.  Do you see a lot of cobwebs?  If you do, then what does it say about the pride that our people take in their facility?  

Over the last few years my wife and I have enjoyed eating at the 19th Hole occasionally and visiting with the folks down there.  When we go, I find myself annoyed, when I see the door that leads from the dining area to the kitchen area.  It is beat to a pulp.  It is scarred up, covered with cheap signs and looks like a door that belongs on rundown shed.  Every time I see that door, the first thing that pops into my mind is, “If Jake was to walk in here and see that, it would be painted before the end of the day!”  What would it cost to paint that door, $10?  I haven't been in the 19th Hole for awhile, so I hope that the door has been taken care of by now.

Here is something to consider.  If our management takes so little pride in these small things, what else would we find if we looked carefully at other, more mission critical areas?  While as yet I have taken no stand on this matter of hiring Vision Golf, I do find myself agreeing with some of our other contributors who ask, why not.  Why are some of our contributors so concerned with protecting the status quo?  Do they really like things as they are?  Do they think that it is just impossible to do better than we are now doing?  Now, that is depressing.

08/23/2010

We made the Mobile Press Register Today

08/23/2010

While there are certainly financial issues that the LFPOA is faced with, the idea that changing management alone will solve them is ridiculous. Does anyone believe that with new management there will be more golfers? More folks eating at the 19th Hole? More people going to the Yacht Club? A decrease in the costs of operations? If you think this, you are sorely mistaken. While there is disagreement in the actions of the GM and the way certain things are done for the association, does that mean that we "throw the baby out with the bath water"? If the F&B operations need help or change, bring in a F&B Manager that suits these ideals, or find a F&B consultant to train and install the operation desired. Same can be said for Golf operations, Yacht Club, and most other services offered to our members. If facilities need improvement, create a professional plan and method for the improvement. There are a myriad of ways to move forward that would keep management here, keep accounting in-house, and improve all operations. In each case, they demand more from our members. It seems to me that the financial issues facing our association can be solved in any number of ways.. as long as our members pay the right price. Should we just increase the dues and see the improvement through?

08/23/2010

Mitch, can you put a copy of the VPs letter to the editor on the site?

I'd be happy to, but I haven't seen it myself.  Perhaps she will be willing to send me a copy.

08/23/2010

Financials my not lie but those that mis-represent them do. Saying that 90% of the dues go to personnel is a half-truth making it a whole lie. By comparing labor to only part of the income is deceptive at best. The whole truth is that for the full year 2009 total income was $2,710,314 and personnel expenses including FICA, etc was $1,208,900. For those math challenged, that's 44.6% not 90%. I understand that a Vision rep stated that is better than any of the properties they "manage". It is appalling that no one on this board has sit down with the controller and GM to review the financials or the numbers in Vision's proposal. That proposal has numerous "pie in the sky assumptions" as in doubling the income at the Yacht Club and 19th hole with no added expense. No "receivables" bad debt, which there is plenty. Inaccurate debt figures and payoffs, etc, etc, etc. Finally, how does one state that "financials don't lie" when I'm told that not one financial has been requested in recent memory?

08/23/2010

Mitch - First off thank you for creating and maintaining this site. I know it is a lot of work and and is very time consuming! Second since there are a lot of comments , on this site and in the community (mainly among a very select few people) about the "failures of the past boards, staff and outside management, etc. I just wanted to say. DISCLAIMER>>This is only targeted to a select few people not everyone in general. You will know if this statement is meant for you. As a young person (I'm 32) standing back listening to some of you "matured" individuals. Your harping on past events makes me and others wonder if you have alhzeimers, dementia or are just senile! I know many older people, my best friends and people I prefer to "hang-out" with are the 50+ age group -- they don't act this way. So, what's your excuse?? Special note: Mitch - I see where Mr. Peterson has previously slammed you and of course is bringing up stuff that is totally irrelevant to our current events - reckon he fits into that "select few" I am speaking of. From what I understand Mr. Peterson was a real piece of work and a horrible asset to our community when he served. Whoops, did I just say that out loud - sorry! Anyway - we all need to work on our future not the past! Sincerely, Wes Hamilton (PLEASE PRINT MY NAME)

Is this one talking about me? Senile? Ridiculous! Oops, I'm certain I was wearing pants when I left home.  Have we met?  What day is this?

08/23/2010

QUESTION!!>>>>IS THERE ANY WAY POSSIBLE FOR SOME OF YOU TO MOVE ON FROM PAST AND THE EVENTS THAT MAY HAVE HAPPENED IN THE PAST?? Just wondering?? Some of you people sound absolutely ridiculous (like little children), constantly whining about "who did what - way back when". This constant broken record / stuttering / repetitive stuff is really, really childish and it gets NO ONE anywhere. We as a community are still left with the OBVIOUS fact that our current system is not working. OK-so way back in the day Lake Forest used a management company and it didn't work out. That is a real shame! My suggestion would be not to hire that particular company again. Just because that company was a failure (for whatever reason) doesn't mean that VISION MANAGEMENT will also be a failure. Can they -or- will they be worse than what we have now? That should be the real question. Remember, our current system is failing miserably - so things might get better.

08/20/2010

I wonder how many of our members know that we have been down this road (Vision Golf) before. Years ago we brought in CCA, Country Clubs of America (same type of outfit) and they too were going to turn everything around.  Guess what they didn't.  I don't recall if we ran them off or they gave up. While I do not agree in total with our management style, I fail to find justification in blaming our situation on them. Our bottom line problem is failure to raise the dues. Vision Golf, if hired, won't be here for a year.

08/20/2010

I have read the letter written to the newspaper about our situation. Basically the letter stated the (WE) Lake Forest have a financial problem - that is not (negative) and it certainly is TRUE! Her letter was also calling for community support / help / involvement in correcting our current BAD FINANCIAL SITUATION. How is that negative? We do need help! The current administration / management set in place is a failure - the financial reports don't lie! Why is there such resistance to allowing a REAL PROFESSIONAL COMPANY to come in and help us? I really don't understand all the in-fighting about this. Again - The Financials don't lie! Someone (maybe more than one person) currently in charge doesn't seem to know what they are doing? Are you really content in keeping the current failing system in place? Why do you people (in general) care if the GM and/or Comptroller are removed? You seem to be emotionally attached to these people. This decision should be made off logic and facts - not of RAW EMOTIONS. The whole future of the community is at stake here! The employees that may have to leave can find other jobs.

08/20/2010

08/20/2010

On a different note here, I just got my homeowners renewal policy and it went up again this year. I am soooo frustrated I'm turning blue. I'll give you a little history and any advise is greatly appreciated. First, my house is 26 years old and we have around 1680 sf. Never had a claim and my wife and I have great credit. We are insured by Geovera and our new policy is $4,079 per year ($500 increase from last year) on a $160k house. I am with Geovera because they were a little cheaper than State Farm four years ago. I have talked to other companies in the past but most wouldnt even insure our house because we were in the "wind zone" or our house was too old. I know I am being taken for a ride with these yahoos but my options seem little to none! We love Lake Forest but I am considering selling and moving further north in the county to get out of this highway robbery situation. Any suggestions???

That seems outrageous.  See if Farmer's is still insuring south of I10.  At least at one time, they had some reasonable rates.  The State of Alabama is going to have to step in on this somehow.

08/19/2010

Well, if the country club was still here. The capital reserves required would be much more than they are. The total increase in dues would be more as well. It is my opinion that the renovation of the old clubhouse would cost an excessive amount when compared to the demo and a future meeting room constructed at that site for the purposes you speak of (If that will ever occur). In the interim, the reduction in costs of having it will be beneficial to the association. And, if they would actually get grass growing there, be more pleasant to the eyes. Mitch, we all know that most of the service reductions occurred in the past. By the time we were there, there was so little that reducing meant eliminating. I mean there was a day when I could eat a seafood buffet on Friday nights at the Yacht Club.. if I could get in the door.

Regarding the service reductions, you make a valid point.  Some of this goes back even before my tenure.  At a point in the late 80s and early 90s, the association was having a revenue/expensive deficit in Food & Beverage to the tune of $300,000 a year.  Our predecessors had to do something and it appeared, I suppose, to them that with deficits like that, there must not be much interest among the members for the level of dining that was being offered.  So, they did do some serious paring back of dining services.  Later from time to time, they would give upscale dining another shot and, unfortunately had the same result.  Even when I was there, Jake asked us to let him give it another try, which is probably the Friday night Seafood dinners that you remember.  Once again, they would start off with a bang for a few weeks, then the new would wear off and so would the business and, once again, we were running huge deficits.  I always viewed services like the pools, golf, tennis and dining as expense centers, not profit centers.  They were the services that we offered our members, because that is what we were supposed to do.  So, I could live with reasonable deficits, like we have in all of our amenities, as long as the association bottom line stayed in the black.  Golf was always fairly reasonable in that way.  Tennis used to run $20K or so deficits, which was reasonable, the pools were less than $100K, but were enjoyed by many.  And, if we could keep F&B under $100K, I didn't have too much of a burn.  That is, as long as the overall bottom line was positive.  But, a $300,000 deficit would have been just too way out of line, even for me. 

08/19/2010

The agenda for the upcoming stated meeting may be found here.

08/19/2010

Please fill me in on the reductions in services that "my group" implemented or proposed. It will be interesting to see your view of that. Oh, and please read the proposal thoroughly. I can agree that the program they are wishing to embark on is a step in the right direction. I have no qualms about paying more for seeing improvements done. You should also recall that "my group" placed on the ballot improvement funding provisions which the membership rejected. Now this board, who ran on a platform of NO DUES INCREASE will now set upon the process of steadily increasing the dues and additional fees for all members.. Oh the irony of it all. See you Thursday night at the stated meeting. John Peterson

Well, John, I suppose it is possible that I am not being completely fair with you.  For example, charging for pools, that had been free may, not be considered a reduction in services.  After all, the pools were still there and the members could still use the service.  It just cost a little.  Also, closing the main pool to members and restricting it to swim team may not be considered a reduction in services, since there were two other pools available.  Knocking down the Country Club, so that members could no longer hold their weddings, birthday and anniversary parties there, actually took place after you left the board.  It was just your board that recommended it, I think.  As for comparing the proposals made by your group to the one being floated now, I believe I'll leave that one for someone else's comment.  By the way, you are dead right that this board ran on "NO DUES INCREASE"!

08/17/2010

Mitch, your comment claiming the "waa, waa, waa, we need more money" is way off base. If you recall, there were presentations made to the membership about the capital funding and a plan for implementation. This included very specific projects and even concept plans prepared by professionals for the pool sites and even the main clubhouse. I know this, because I participated in them. This was done to inform the membership of the needs we had for more money. For you to claim that anyone just cried for more money without a plan is disingenuous. But why should I expect accuracy from a blog-site whose leader is about as uninformed as the current board, who seem surprised at the result. More than anything else at this time, we need honesty and forthrightness. Many lives are at stake, here. Even the association itself is at stake. These are very serious times and a very serious decision is coming forward. Let's just be straight up about it..how well do we know Vision? How well-funded are they to take on this role? Have we seen a corporate financial statement? What assurance does the association have that this 60-day unilateral termination clause would not be invoked, if the going got tough? This association would then have a 60-day window to replace them, the accounting functions, and their management. All these issues should be seriously considered.

I, for one, am still reviewing the documentation.  I'll say this, though, John.  What I have seen so far is very encouraging.  As for your view of history, you probably need to review the performance of the association during the period you were on the board. You also might want to call up the proposals your group made and the reductions in services that your group implemented and see if you can make an honest comparison with the plan that this team has presented.  There's really no comparison.  An examination of the record doesn't generate a great deal of confidence in your opinion. 

08/17/2010

The management company has spoken..and much to some people's surprise, they have said this: Pay more, spend more, and make more. That may be a little short, but in reality, that is what they are suggesting. A stepped increase in dues to fund the capital reserve account. Do the improvements and manage them effectively. Rebuild the executive course (Lake Nine) for more use and try to open up the amenities to more folks. They mention little to nothing about overpaid employees or excessive benefits. The alarmist from earlier posts who claimed these things must have been just wrong. From my perspective, after three years on the board and being very involved with the association business over the last five or so years, it does not surprise me. This is basically what was presented three years ago on the ballot as a dues increase to fund capital. There was also a very similar plan for capital improvements over time presented to the community. You will also read in this report the need to have the board be able to run the association business, including the setting of dues. For many years we have discussed these issues on this site with the intent to gain support for such actions. Repeatedly, we were called unethical, deceptive and even uninformed for promoting such ideas. We can only hope that the board will see fit to take action to move Lake Forest forward in a manner that is beneficial to all who live here. John Peterson, member in good standing and former LFPOA board member

This group seems to have a real plan.  They are not just saying "Waa, Waa, Waa we need more money!"  That's kind of refreshing.  It does sound like genuine management at work.

08/16/2010

We now have data related to the Vision Golf Management Proposal information that is being considered by the LFPOA Board of Directors available for you to view on our website www.lakeforestpoa.com.  A vote is planned for September 16th at the Stated Board Meeting.

  08/16/2010

More information has been received regarding the proposals submitted by the management company being considered for Lake Forest.  This information includes current employee positions and salaries and projected figures after the company takes over.  Since this is an open and public website not restricted to LFPOA members only, I will not be publishing that information.  I will say that the proposal appears to suggest that not all administrative personnel will be replaced under the new management.  It does appear that the general manager, comptroller and accounts payable positions will no longer be required.

08/16/2010

If there is a discussion of Bodiford and his management judgment, you should only know that he placed our association at great risk. By allowing a "teen club" to host bands and parties at our swim and racquet club, our association was put in a liability situation. Any GM who knowingly puts the assets of this associaiton at risk should be judged not just by financials alone. It seems we have pretty much the same stuff going on. There is less discretionary spending or capital spending available due to cost increases in nearly every sector. There is no management around that can get gasoline , insurance, food,etc. at a cheaper price. In fact, when Jake left, our suppliers had us on COD, due to payment delays and unpaid bills. Was that good management?

  The above represents the contributor's opinion and not that of most Lake Forest residents.  There was no unusual liability at the teen center as was corroborated with multiple attorneys and insurance representatives at the time.  Also, the police officers who were commissioned by the association to be on hand for all events were unanimous in their praise of the effort of the association to provide a safe place for these kids to go, instead of hanging out in the woods by the Rave Theatre as they do now.  The officers were also very complementary regarding the behavior of the kids.  As far as the other is concerned, audited financial reports don't lie. The contributor's accusations should be taken with a grain of salt.

Note: Because of my association with and support of the teen center, I have previously stated that there will be no more references to that facility on this website.  The contributor knows it and probably brought that up simply to see if I would print it.  There will be no more postings regarding the teen center, so please don't bother to comment.

08/16/2010

I'm impressed the proposal given by the Vision Management. I like that they have a variety of solutions to the debt problem. I like the general attitude that ALL of LFPOA amenities have value and that there is no push to get rid of any of them. Their proposed numbers are almost too good to be true and it gives me hope as a homeowner that they can turn Lake Forest around and make it a very desirable place to buy a home if not the most desirable area to be in. It makes me excited once again to be more involved with this community. I have to admit that over the years the politics and in fighting have put me off. I think they gave an honest evaluation as things sit today and would love to see where they can take Lake Forest.

08/13/2010

  We have received another document about the management company's proposal.

08/13/2010

  We have received copies of the reports submitted by the management company that has been consulting with the LFPOA board.  Apparently, at last night's working meeting, there was a certain amount of confrontation between directors as to whether or not the material should be released.  I've looked over it briefly and find nothing that would lead me to believe that allowing our readers to see what is being proposed would cause any harm, so it is posted here.  The discussion at the board meeting indicates that this is a work in progress and some of the proposals are being negotiated, so please do not believe that the suggestions here are written in stone.  There are three documents, a Vision Golf Initial Proposal, a Five Year Plan Summary, and a LFPOA Capital Improvement Plan.  Take some time to look them over and give our readers your feedback. You will see that there is a link from the Five Year Plan Summary to the full proposal on the official website, although when I selected it, I was just transferred to the home page of the Lake Forest website.  I did not try to find the report.  From my brief review of the proposal, I could see a little of the Clint Martin hand talking about building a new central facility in 2016. 

08/12/2010

There are tools in any management. Even bringing in management will not change the one fact we have mentioned before here. We do not pay enough to "manage" the place. So all the planning and theories are useless without proper funding. To fully implement any "proper management" will take more resources. So, raise dues and keep management we have or raise dues and use others to manage it. Those will have to be the options discussed. We must ask ourselves, as board members and members in general (which I am one), "is there any value to having people in place that have experience with our amenities, our programs, and our people?" If the answer is no, then go forth and see what results. If the answer is yes...then look cautiously at raising dues and replacing the entire staff. The danger in this process will be disenfranchisement of the existing users (who provide half of total revenue). When that occurs.. revenue decline from them will also. In the end, we pay more either way, but we may be paying a bunch more if a percentage of current users leave. The discussion will be ..can we replace them (the current user base) if they leave ?? Are we willing to bank on that in our economy? This board is going to make a monumental decision with little to no input from the membership. They sure are smart, aren't they? One last note.. the current management is no different than Jake Bodiford.. except he has more expense with the same revenue, older facilities that need more investment, and makes less money because that is all we can afford. Oh, and one more thing.. he doesn't have a tab at the Bienville Club on the LFPOA.

  Some of this is reasonable.  Some is uninformed.  To say that "current management is no different than Jake Bodiford" is definitely uninformed.  One simply has to look at the financials during Jake's tenure to learn the truth about that one. 

As far as the disenfranchising existing users issue is concerned, I just don't see it.  They don't use the amenities because they like the guy behind the desk.  They use the amenities because they own them and they enjoy them and, if anything, new management might enable our users to enjoy their amenities more.  Bear in mind, that I am not advocating any of this.  I am way too far out of the loop to do that.  I'm just suggesting that everyone should approach the whole thing with an open mind.

The Bienville Club thing was arranged by Hal Pierce, when he was president of the association.  He thought that his board and management should have access to such a place, so as to be able to network with power players in the area for the benefit of Lake Forest.  Jake was skeptical of its value and rarely used the facility.  In the ten years that I was involved with the board, I think he took us there twice.  On one of those occasions I seem to recall there were some pretty significant local political guests, so perhaps Hal was right.  This was just one of those phony issues that the contributor's slate used when they were trying to take over the board.  That Bienville Club membership cost the association less than a $1000 a year out of its two and a half million dollar a year budget.  Bringing that up just to try and denigrate a former general manager doesn't really help the discussion.

08/11/2010

A management company would bring in a GM and get rid of the office girls, except for a receptionist. They would have their own payroll, accounts payable, accounts receivable, accounting, and HR personel.

  As sad as that would be for some of us, it would not likely bother most LFPOA members any more than the situation of the millions of other Americans, who have lost their jobs during the current economic downturn.  Let's not forget that Lake Forest's problem is the result of a lack of management, that we have had since Jake Bodiford left.  The current board did not do it.  Certainly, there are those who do not agree with the last couple of sentences.  It would sure be interesting to see the management group's actual report. 

08/10/2010

Executive Session to discuss the management company. Sounds like the Board is up to no good. Any way to keep them from hiring this company and firing our current employees? I assume that is why they went into executive session.

  Even if a management company is engaged, it is not likely that they would be firing employees; at least not right away; well, maybe one or two.

08/09/2010

The first board meeting to discuss the findings of the management group went immediately to executive session. They will finally discuss it openly at the work session on the 12th.

08/04/2010

Why not rely on neighbors to report violations? I think the problem is follow up instead of patrols. If the violation is a problem, the neighbors should object.

08/03/2010

Mitch . . . you assume correctly - the Covenant Compliance group is sanctioned by the Architectural Committee. We are there to voluntarily assist the Architectural Committee so as to free up their time to process and correct violations that we record and photograph. There's only one person to process all the complaints and/or violations and that person doesn't have the time to drive every street in the subdivision twice a month to record and photograph violations and process and correct them in addition to their other duties which include, but are not limited to, working with builders who submit plans for new homes and/or homeowners wanting to build additions and the like. If there weren't volunteers doing this job, this subdivision would be much worse off than it is now when it comes to covenant violations.

08/03/2010