11/24/2008

Reminder:  Anonymous contributions are not published.  If you would like your opinion put on the Grapevine, you must identify yourself.  The identity will not be placed on the Grapevine, however, unless the contributor includes it in the body of the contribution.

11/21/2008

Here is an unofficial summary of last night's stated meeting of the Lake Forest Board of Directors.  The evening started off with a presentation by two gentlemen from Daphne Utilities.  The topic was the problem with grease and oil being dumped into the sewer system by homeowners.  It seems that this is a severe problem resulting in clogged sewer lines and environmental problems.  The audience was told about the Daphne Utilities Biodiesel program which has garnered interested from all around the country.  We were also told about the utilities company's Lend A Hand Program, where we can volunteer to have our water bills rounded up to the next dollar and have the difference put into a fund to help some less fortunate to pay their bill.  I signed up this morning.

Marie Bidney called for a vote on allowing the Daphne Search & Rescue to use the Lake Forest marina as their home.  The vote passed, I believe, unanimously.

Among other items mentioned at the meeting was the revelation that apparently the swim team can use the main Swim & Racquet Club pool without requiring all of that renovation that we were told about earlier.  That's good news, but I wonder if they are going to let the rest of our members use the facility this year.  Other swim news included some information about the need to replace the shower and restroom facilities that were demolished at that pool recently.  I believe the cost is expected to be somewhere in the neighborhood of thirty thousand dollars.  There will be other expenditures needed to prepare all the pools for use this year; around $12,000 at Ridgewood and $3,500 at Montclair.

The financial report was not very pretty.  Go figure.

The modifications to the 19th Hole area in preparation for moving the administrative offices are scheduled to start in the next week or so for a cost of under $20,000.  The actual move of those offices has not yet been planned.  Clint Martin made a motion to demolish the Country Club, which passed by a unanimous vote.  Only Joe Moseley was not present and there is no reason to believe that he would not also have voted aye to that one.  Speaking of Clint, I noticed that he is not listed as chairman of anything this year which is unusual for a second or third year director.  In the opinion of this writer alone with the demolishing of the Country Club, the members' equity in the association will drop at least a half a million dollars.  The association will benefit from a little lower utility bill, which should offset that loss over the next twenty years or so.

11/20/2008

The city council, actually, the first city council that had Lake Forest members delivered the most for our subdivision. There were several drainage issues repaired and every major roadway was resurfaced. Those members also had the council-manager form of government. It just seems that since we went to the Mayor-council form, Lake Forest has been largely ignored. Maybe a Lake Forest Mayor is needed. Why not begin now to prepare for such a happening. The city should expend funds in a consistent and organized fashion. We have seen none of that. LF must also vote more loudly to be recognized. Voting actually means you care about what is going on. Our districts are precentage wise some of the lowest turnout districts. Get out the vote!

11/19/2008

Just curious, but does anyone know of any subdivisions without similar complaints. I am hearing even worst stuff about Historic Malbis. Must be an inevitable struggle between those in control & those not.

11/18/2008

Regarding property values I believe we are our own worst enemy. We love to gripe about aging amenities, mismanagement of association funds, rental homes, dues that go to nothing and so on. All of these comments do expand out into the public realm. I am sure TimberCreek is now hurting themselves by involving the media in their current debacle. Instead of griping, why don't we try to present some solutions. Instead of concerning ourselves with our own selfish interests, (ie: golf, tennis, swimming, boating) why don't we look into an overall solution. Similar to national politics, local politics can also be like turning a cruise ship around. Changes can be made, but will take time. Until the majority of the residents in our community can all appreciate what our neighborhood does have to offer and learn to participate we will continue to deteriorate. We should have tremendous pull at city hall, but until we can coordinate and organize within our own community, how can we demand the city to listen to our needs?

11/17/2008

Have you seen Sunday's paper? This is something you may find interesting. Look in the Real Estate section and you will find a large article "Timbercreek covenants draw complaints". This is a must read. But if you don't have a Sunday's paper you need to check out this web site that was listed in the paper.. www.SaveTimberCreek.com . The more you read the more you will enjoy it :)

I have added a link to the website you mention to our Links panel on the home page.  Apparently, not everything is hugs and kisses in Timbercreek either.

11/17/2008

I think the main reason people see our subdivision as "run down" is because of the poor condition of the roads. Look at any of the subdivisions considered to be better than Lake Forest and you'll see smooth, pretty roads. Our roads are rough, uneven, and full of potholes and ugly patches. I've seen better streets in a Mobile ghetto. Are these city streets or is it up to the POA to get them paved? People on this site constantly question whether the amenities get used or not. Who cares? The streets get used and seen by all. This should be the first priority.

Now that is about the best theory of the property value question that I believe I have heard!  When Daphne annexed Lake Forest, we were told that the city would take over responsibility for maintaining the streets.  Well, the city has never lived up to its end of the deal.  We were supposed to see some serious street work done this year.  What happened?  The mayor and council decided to divert the money to their new administrative building with its 2200 square foot mayor's suite.  The mayor doesn't live in Lake Forest you know.  Five of the seven districts in Daphne touch on Lake Forest but our councilpersons have never accepted responsibility for delivering services to our community.  I have heard some of them say that they "have to consider the well-being of the entire city."  To heck with that!  If they want to be responsible for the entire city they should run for mayor!  Representatives are elected from districts so that they might bring forward the issues that are important to their district.  Lake Forest has never gotten its money's worth out of any of its council representatives. None of them have ever "brought home the bacon."  And it is the residents of Lake Forest's own fault to a certain extent.  We have not voted for people from Lake Forest and we have not demanded that they address our issues.  By the way, to answer the contributor's question, it is the City of Daphne that is responsible for streets.

11/14/2008

In terms of property values for Lake Forest. I guess the question would be whether 30 year old facilities, that look 30 years old, would be an added value. Or what level of newness would actually change the home values we have. When speaking of property values, one must recognize that they are determined by the market. The market is driven by demand and supply. Would 3,000+ homes in a subdivision bring values down? It would depend on the demand, right? Immediately following Katrina, we had high demand for homes in our area. Our prices reflected this with an increase in value. That high demand was caused by outside forces, right? What if Lake Forest could create a higher demand down the road for their houses? How can we, as a community do that? One way we try to do that is providing high quality amenities, right? NO!!!!! Look at our amenities. While appropriate in number and size, the quality is sorely lacking. They look like what they are, 30 year old amenities. The capital plan, if continued, will slowly bring those amenities to look like new amenities. It stands to reason that amenities of a higher quality with a more aesthetic appeal would draw people to live here. That is an increase in demand. It was the position of the previous board that improving the amenities in this way would indeed have a positive impact on the property values in the entire community. The problem with all that is that clearly, even with the income stream we have, there is insufficient capital invested to get our amenities to look like anything other than 30 year old amenities. So the question is.. Do the members want to have nice amenities? In the 2006 member survey, the answer was a resounding YES!. But in the 2008 election, when asked to provide capital to do just that, the answer was a resounding NO!. The members want nicer facilities and want them for nothing. Maybe Obama can help us out. Doubt! I suspect we will see the gradual shutting down of amenities until we can sustain what is left with the current dues structure, because the board will lack the backbone to unilaterally act to secure the financial ability on their own. Worse, the board now has new members who do not see the income stream as a problem. This is evident by their signage against increasing dues. I guess they feel that "they can run it better and smarter". Unfortunately, they will find out that what was told to them is true. Their is no secret cash outlays or unnecessary costs to cut. No magic wand to keep the facilities open except more money. That fact will not go away because of ones desire to keep the dues where they are. Sorry. But back to home values. A key question. Did the government policy on home ownership, that lead to the failures in the financial sector, have a negative impact on Lake Forest? Do we have a poorer population because of this policy? Did the government action bring a lower socio-economic level into Lake Forest? Is this "home owner" with barely enough cash to pay their mortgage, and clearly no discretionary money to spend at our facilities, really showing up? These are questions we need to look at. What is our demographic today versus 20 years ago? Where are we heading. Can we change that demographic to increase usages? Lots of whys, ifs and buts, and still, we need more money, right? Increase the dues to afford better facilities and drive away, over time, homeowners who truly cannot afford to own a house here.

Well, that's one theory.  Does anyone have another?

11/13/2008

Well, it's good to not see Lake Forest in the Sound Off today.  I was beginning to get a little tired of the complaining myself.  As I reported a couple of days ago, the criticisms of the community regarding the condition of the homes are really blown all out of proportion.   On the other hand, I am interested in hearing your opinions on one issue that we have been arguing about over the years.  That issue is "do the amenities really increase our property values in a positive way."  I have always believed that they do.  However, when I look at the various real estate websites, it seems that homes in Lake Forest are cheaper than comparable homes in other areas around the Eastern Shore.  In particular, I see no reason why any house in Spanish Fort should cost more than a comparable house in Lake Forest.  Lake Forest is so much prettier and the homes, when viewed as a community, are just as nice or even nicer than those elsewhere.  So, is this perception of higher valued homes elsewhere an illusion or is there really something to it?  If there is something to it, then the question is why aren't the amenities inflating home prices in Lake Forest?  I do have a theory, but I want to hear from you first.  What do you think?

Theory, one definition: "a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact"

11/10/2008

I thought of a couple of other presidential accomplishments that had a long term impact on the country, Thomas Jefferson's Louisiana Purchase and Andrew Johnson's purchase of Alaska, St11eward's Folly.  Did you know that the U.S. minister to Russia at the time of the Alaska purchase was Cassius Clay?  I didn't realize that Muhammad Ali was that old. ;-)

11/10/2008

For several years now, I have been hearing complaint after complaint about the deteriorating condition of homes in Lake Forest.  I have seen some occasional examples of that, so when the complaints surfaced, just automatically accepted them as truth.  But, more and more I have begun to think that these complaints are being blown out of proportion.  I just haven't seen all that many run-down homes.  Sure, many of the houses in our neighborhood are over thirty years old.  I would imagine that most of them could use some work.  My own thirty-plus year old home needs work.  It's an on-going project.  I'll be that if you were to tell the truth, you'd say the same about yours.  I took a ride around some of the main thoroughfares of Lake Forest this weekend and I just have to tell you, Lake Forest really looks nice.  In fact, if one wants to sum up Lake Forest in one sentence, it would be "Lake Forest is a lovely, well maintained community."  Perhaps there is a particular section that needs attention.  Perhaps there is an occasional house here and there that needs attention.  But, to suggest that the norm in our community is anything but attractive and taken care of would be wrong.

Well, I got a couple of responses from my little cheap shot yesterday.  We're all just going to have to wait and see how things turn out.  Just out of curiosity, though, how many examples of presidential action can you really say had long term impact on America?  I can think of four offhand.  Lincoln's invasion of the South is one.  FDR's handling of World War II is another.  There was Eisenhower's Interstate Highway System and John Kennedy's mobilization of the space race.  I doubt that most of us realize just how much of what we use today is a direct result of that last one.  Can you think of more?  Share them with us.

11/7/2008

Geez man!! The election just took place, and Jan. is a couple of months away!! I think you need to put your anger where it belongs_-- the current administation and its past 8 yrs...... We are probably going to be part of a company cut back statistic too !!  Well, after 30+yrs. on the job and some young kid will work for half the pay...That's reality in business cost control-- not socialism!!  I say, out with the old and in with the new generation-it's time!!  We got prepared and invested in a business in preparation for this upset ahead of us!!  Best investment we made in the last few months--401k not so good--lol!!

No anger here, my friend.  Just great anticipation of things to come.  I suppose things could get worse than they are right now, but goodness knows, I hope not.  As I write this, my 401K is worth less than I have put into it in the last fifteen years, but the Dow is up for the day! 

By the way, while a great many things have been done wrong over the last eight years, the same can be said for just about every administration.   I'm still glad to see this one end.  But, before we get too critical about our man, W, let's not forget that although he was a pilot at one time, he did not fly a plane into one of the twin towers.  And, since he took the steps he did in the aftermath of the attack, there has not been another one.  He had the responsibility in the midst of the horror and in my opinion handled it pretty well.  All these other guys have the luxury of hindsight.  I'm not sure how much better any of them would have done.  And, I don't think that any president has carte blanche, when it comes the the condition of the economy.  All presidents have to compromise with the Congress.  To hold a president totally accountable is just not right.  He got a lot of help from people on both sides of the aisle.

11/7/2008

My, my, my, he hasn't taken the oath yet and it's socialism. From my perspective the last eight years have not been what one would call positive. Pretty soon the stock market, un-employment and all the ills will be the due to the Obama Presidency. You are way out of line, have ye no faith?

Oh, you betcha!  I've got truckloads of faith!  I've got faith in this absolutely terrific system that is the American democracy.  During the election, when both candidates were making grand pronouncements of the change they were going to make, my reaction was one of amusement.   Our man, Barack, is in for a rude awakening.  He's going to have to reign in the far left, who think they have hit pay dirt.  He is going to have to negotiate with those Blue Dog Democrats and conservative Republicans, who will not easily be pushed around.  Unfortunately, he's probably going to find out that hugs and kisses just won't work with the leaders of some of those other countries.  And, he is also going to find out that the bureaucracy is like a giant cruise ship that just does not turn on a dime.  When Nixon was president, he thought he was going to reign in that giant B word.  He found out otherwise.  After a while, the good presidents figure out that they will have to build a consensus to get anything done.  President Obama will be no different.   

11/7/2008

I received a nice Email today.

11/6/2008

  The Dow was up for three days before the election and has dropped each day since.  Drat!!! Don't those investors realize that the new administration is going to solve all of our problems? With the hit our retirement accounts are taking, we can't retire! Of course, with our seniority, the layoffs will go to someone else and the unemployment stats will just have to look bad, right?  But, that's OK, the government will just take more from those who are fortunate enough to have a job and spread it among the others. Isn't socialism grand! It worked so well for the Soviet Union and Cuba, didn't it?  This one ought rile up some of our friends. ;-)

11/5/2008

FYI, LF peeps. Items were stolen from four vehicles on Hillcrest Circle in early October. I didn't lock the door of my truck (it's always been a personality flaw of mine but I've never felt like I had to where we live) and I forgot that I put my wallet in a gym bag on the passenger seat. They got my bag, wallet, $60, all my cards and licenses, work cell phone, my favorite flashlight (it was awesome), and – um – the spare key to my wife’s car that I had left in the armrest. Fortunately, her car was sitting right next to my truck, thereby saving the offenders the trouble of determining what the key was for. I hope they were pleased with the convenience I provided. Redistributing my wealth felt patriotic. They took the engraved IPod I gave her for Christmas. She tried to hide it, but I suspected from her loud, uncontrollable sobbing, her repeated calls to her mother, and her inability to stop yelling at me, that she may have been upset. Which item was the biggest loss to her? Hint: It rhymes with “Iditarod”.  Down the street, a neighbor had a purse and a cell phone stolen from an unlocked car.  Another car was opened but I don’t know what was taken. The cops were nice enough, but couldn’t do much of anything, but tell us about how common it is for stuff to be stolen in LF now.  Side anecdote - In three years, I’ve never seen a police car on my street and the cop admitted that in 8 months on the job, it was his first time there.  My property backs up to the dirt road on the south side of Tiawassee creek. It’s the road that turns off right next to the bridge that every teenager in LF knows is the best place to smoke weed and I know as the best place to find roaches (just kidding). This road was originally platted as Sherwood Drive (LF Unit 8 – subdivision plat is here: http://www.deltacomputersystems.com/cgi-iia5/IIMCGI02?HTMCNTY=AL05&HTMBASE=C&HTMKEY=0824907& ). I’ve asked the cops why it couldn’t be gated off at least for vehicular traffic.  They said it was owned by a construction company.  I’m pretty dadgum sure this is incorrect.  There is a similar dirt road on the north side of the creek that is shown as Ridgewood Drive on the Unit 8 plat. THIS road has a gate. I don’t think the burglars came from the back road. They probably just lollygagged at their leisure down the middle of the street. Anyone know anything about the dirt road?  Oh, my two cents – huge problem to me in LF is that the roads and medians look like crap. Many look like total utter crap.  Lawson Road entrance medians and surrounding areas look like crap.  Hwy 90 entrance medians look rough once you get past the sign. I think that it breeds the apathy that brings everything else down. Why should someone care about their yard, when they have a dirt median filled with red clay gulleys in front of their house?  Crepe myrtles spaced evenly and then allowed to grow wild are not the solutions. Throwing out grass seed on hard-packed soil on a 45-degree slope is not the solution. I know the road issue is being worked on (and I hope they consider curbing around many of the medians to discourage parking and erosion). The medians can be fixed by LF personnel – right?  Sure, the soil is poor and the only thing I can grow in my back yard is tired, but a little grading, topsoil addition, grassing and watering during droughts using our delicious lake water would go a long way. Hold utility companies accountable for their work in the median. You know how many Bellsouth pedestals, junction boxes, Riviera drop holes and power poles there are that look like crap? See one leaning and busted open – call the local office, tell them it was run over, tell them kids have been playing around it. Don’t like how the dirt wasn’t graded or grassed (in violation of City ordinances) around their work site – call them, call the City, talk to the people you see there, bug the snot out of them if you have to. Every time you see someone parked in the median (and you know I’m not talking about the occasional gathering) – call the police. The first time I did, they told me to keep on doing it. Every time you see an erosion problem – call the city and ask to speak to the Mayor or the environmental officer. If a contractor’s crew is parked in the median call the police. If dump trucks are parked at the ends of cul-de-sacs in the road – call the police. If they are parked in the ROW, day after day – call the police. Tell the cops it is a safety hazard. Call the LF staff. Tell them you are posting no parking signs and caution tape to prevent erosion and illegal activity. Tell them you are going to take matters in to your own hands if they don’t do anything about it and you hope it doesn’t get physical. Squeak wheels! SQUEAK!!! HOPE!!!! CHANGE!!!! AUDACITY!!!! I follow the rules. I’m sure most of you do to. I mow my grass. I clip my hedges. I don’t park in my yard.  I own.  I care about my neighborhood.  If you rent, same rules apply.  If your household has 8 cars, same rules apply.  If you make money doing construction in LF, same rules apply.  Shame is the strongest of motivators.  Repetition is the best way to teach a lesson. Repetition of shame to prevent repetition of shameful acts is awesome. “The individual is not accountable to society for his actions in so far as these concern the interests of no person but himself.” - Some Guy, 19??

You tell'em man! Lake Forest doesn't have the personnel to maintain the medians.   Those belong to the city.  It is their responsibility.  Call your city councilman!  Don't squeak, scream!  Lake Forest has not gotten its share of attention from the city since the day it was annexed.  By the way, the guy was right about Sherwood being owned by the developer.  They have been developing on the other end of it.

11/4/2008

Mitch, What you have failed to mention about the Swim and Racquet Buuilding was that the life safety issues of that building were such that the city Fire Inspector was ready to close the building last year. It has been virtually condemned due to many issues related to exits and such. The swim team has nothing whatsoever to do with any slate or board candidates. The Lake Forest Swim Team has provided positive recreation and social opportunity to our youth for many years. Does it make sense to send them packing? Secondly, the costs of repairing the clubhouse versus upgrading the pool at this facility is no contest. The clubhouse has known costs exceeding $250,000. Other costs to repair existing interior walls and floors that have rotted from moisture damage are likely in excess of $100,000. We could spend well over $350,000, and still have an inaccessible, inefficient and often unused facility. While repairing the swim and racquet pool to make it swim meet ready AND ready for use by our members with a new bathhouse building would cost , realistically, a little over $200,000. The would be around $100,000 for the pool upgrades and building and site costs of about $100,000. So, at issue is where to best spend association dollars and return improved facility use and enjoyment and add value to our properties. That will be a board decision. This writer believes that our membership and community gain more by the vast improvement of this facility, than halfway fixing the clubhouse. The Swim and Racquet improvements do not need to be, what I call, the minimum necessary. Our board should let this one improvement be a standard for our facility improvement plan. It is being considered by some on the board to totally abandon the swimming pool there and bring it to the clubhouse. Costs for this program would be roughly $250,000 for a new competitive pool, site improvements to around $50,000, removal of clubhouse and renovation necessary to make pool functional would be around $150,000 or so. let's see. That is a $450,000 bill. It just seems that financially, the association would have to look at the pool improvement option as the most affordable and attainable. In doing so, I would hope that the playground area at the facility would become more of a water feature area with sprays and fountains. The membership deserves modern and fun pool areas. Then again, the board has to decide. I wish them luck and warn them to be quick in this decision. It is not long until pool openings will be upon us.

After replacing the old building with new bathhouse facilities, the cost to bring the pool up to a level that it can be used for competitive events, I am told, will be over a hundred thousand dollars.  It is not a matter of sending the team packing.  It is a matter of where whether or not such a team benefits the members of the association enough to justify that great of an expense.  The members can still enjoy the pool without it.  Revenue is not an issue here, either.  If it were, the $6000 a year that the swim team contributes to the association would never justify the expense.  It is a matter of whether this service, the swim team, is one that the membership appreciates enough to keep on supporting financially.  The board started charging members to use their pools.  Now you want to take five to ten years of the revenue generated from that charge to fund this.  The previous board repeatedly threatened to close down amenities because of poor cash flow.  I am not one to advocate shutting down any service to the membership.  However, if it is absolutely necessary to do so, then it become a question of priorities of the current board.  More members use and enjoy that Country Club, than participate in swim team activities.  Furthermore, let's assume that your repair estimates for the Country Club are correct.  Is it possible to build a new one for the same amount of money?  No.  Also, those repairs do not have to be made today.  They can be planned and implemented in a structured manner over time.  That is possible to accomplish without loading excessive debt on the association.  And, in the opinion of myself and others, if we were designing these amenities today from scratch, it might make sense to put them in one spot.  But, we're not, and with the current design of the existing facilities, it probably does not make sense to try and do it now.

11/3/2008

It is clear that the members want the facilities and want them maintained, yet have repeatedly denied the board adequate funds to do so. The members do not understand the costs associated with billing, collecting, and managing the dues we get. That has always been the problem. It is easy to wonder what costs so much up there, isn't it? The issue is a lack of faith in the numbers, and the use of the money, it always has been. Now, what causes such lack of faith in the boards we have. It is a few things, really. One would be a failure of the boards to adequately present the information to the membership. This task is so difficult to do. We send out regular reports that show where the money goes, in general, but the membership doesn't see the fine print. Clearly, labeling expenses as "Undistributed" or "General Accounting and Administration" , and having these items being the highest expenses we have as an association causes this to some extent. It is easy to understand "Golf" as an income and expense item. People will never understand the costs of the "Overhead" items in our budget. They mistakenly expect all the dues to go into the facilities or operation with no overhead costs at all. Secondly, there is both divisiveness and misinformation out there. This site, itself, contributes to the lack of trust the board has with its members. You cannot deny that calling board actions "unethical", or "mismanagement", or "reckless" would do more harm than a logical and thoughtful discussion of the items. It is a shame that as hard as a board has tried to present this association to its members forthrightly and honestly, it did nothing for improving awareness or faith in board actions or decisions. Even with a controversial ballot, a dues increase, less than a third of the membership sent in ballots. Does that tell us anything? Another issue is just plain old apathy. There is no telling how many members got their ballot and thought.. "why send me this, just tell me what to pay and be done with it". Then threw it in the trash. Thus is the problem with membership solely deciding dues issues. If you were to actually speak to every member out there, it would probably surprise you how many would just do what is described above. They expect the board to handle these things. So, a real problem is that a mobile dissenting group can control the association under a member driven system. In actuality, the developers knew this issue and never intended for the members to decide such issues. That was what was originally done, and then in 2003 the developer tried to get back to that original set up. I guess there will be debates and questions as long as we have an association. There will also be those who just don't want an association. I think it is time to let the board run the place, watch over them and vote for boards that truly have integrity and care for the community in their heart. And then, when they decide what is truly necessary to run and maintain the association and its properties properly, gladly pay it, because when we get facilities that rival any around, our home values will more than make up for that cost. Thanks for reading .

Well, written.  However. I was one of the people talking to the developer in 2003 and the management of that organization made it clear that they did not trust the judgment of future boards for some of the reasons you mentioned above and, therefore, was opposed to giving them the authority to change the by-laws.  Your suggestion that "the developer tried to get back to that original set up" is mistaken. 

Speaking of "lack of faith in the numbers", the official website states that one of the issues voted on at the annual meeting had the following result, "Yes – 260; No – 544; 5.35 - Borrowing Capacity".  The developer cast its 1300+ votes against that amendment and yet their vote is not included in that tally.  Why do you suppose that is?

11/3/2008

Another issue has come before the board that they might appreciate some input on.  I am told that the city has informed them that the Swim & Racquet Club pool does not meet the standards for competitive meets and they will not be allowed to use it for the swim team meets this year.  I understand that they are looking at an expenditure in excess of $100,000 to bring that pool up to standards. Understand that the pool can still be used for recreational purposes.  It just cannot be used for swim meets by the swim team.  So, if the association were to help the Lake Forest Swim team to find another place and then allow our members to use that pool, it would be just fine.  Now, let me give you a perception of mine with which some among us may not agree.  I believe that the people who have been promoting the slates and pulling many of the strings over the last few years are swim team people.  You may recall that the previous board barred the membership from using that pool last year and reserved it strictly for the swim team.  You may also recall that the previous board demolished the Dox teen center, the old Swim & Racquet Club, a building that these same string-pullers also hated and now they are going to have to build new bath/shower facilities to replace it.  You may or may not know that reportedly most swim team members are not even property owners.  So, what do you think?  Should they spend the money?  One of the directors told me that he/she believes that if they do spend the money, they must also make the pool available to dues paying members again.  That sure seems reasonable to me.  Now, the board plans to tear down a Country Club, that many people enjoy and most people think is a lovely building, because they don't want to spend the money to repair and maintain it.  At the same time, they want to spend a lot of money on a pool, that members have not even been allowed to use.   What would you recommend?