2/28/2007

One of our directors has commented repeatedly about negativity on this site, most recently in just the last couple of days.  I just don't see it.  In fact, most of the negativity that has been published around Lake Forest over the last couple of years has come from the directors themselves.  In fact, there is an example of it in today's contributions.  There is a difference between criticizing the president or general manager or even the Board of Directors and being negative about Lake Forest .  In spite of what they may think, the president and general manager are not Lake Forest.  It is this writer's opinion that the great bulk of what has been submitted to this site has been bullish on our community. 

But, I certainly wouldn't want to make a liar out of a director, so let's have at it.  To my knowledge, I have said nothing that could be construed as negative about the idea of having a consultant to come up with a plan for Lake Forest.  But let's say we get one and, just for the sake of argument, it only costs the $65,000 or the $40,000, whichever proposal they accept.  Then what?  This is the board that reinstated the assessment and plans to charge for pools this year.  As they may or may not know, according to the bylaws, they are limited to one assessment per year and can only borrow a $100,000 per year.  That is a total of about $250,000.  The consultant could come back with a plan that says we can completely renovate the entire place for fourteen million dollars.  Then what?   Do you think the members are going to vote to fund that project?  Not a chance.  Let's say the number is a little more practical and only comes to five million dollars, will they vote for that?  No.  OK. OK. Let's get real and say they come up with a plan that will only cost two million dollars.  Will the membership vote for that?  No.  One million?  No!  Will they agree to at least raise the dues a little?  NO!  So, the only chance they would have is for the developer to vote for it.  But, the guy who runs Friday Construction is a pretty sharp cookie.  There is no way he would vote for that.  Such a thing would be crazy.  So, I guess you can say the whole consulting thing is a waste of money.  Oh shoot!  I thought I was going to be negative, but that was not really about Lake Forest was it.  It was negative about the consulting plan!  Darn! 

 2/28/2007

Today your webmaster and previous boards were RIPPED by a couple of directors.  I'm not sure why, unless they think that comments I have made regarding the president also referred to them.  They did not.  In any case one was via the Suggestion Box, so I will publish that one for you.  The other was in a personal message, which will not be published.  The reason for not publishing the second is that when anyone wants to discuss issues one on one without public critique, I am happy to oblige.  In spite of what today's contributions might suggest, your webmaster is really interested in helping.  If I can share any information or advice with a director, I will only be too happy to do so.  In any case, what follows is one of the contributions and a response. 

2/28/2007

It was brought to my attention today that all the clubs mentioned in Clint's posting yesterday have tennis pros.  In fact, most of them have assistant tennis pros.  Oh, by the way, the bugle remark that I didn't recognize had to do with my joke about Clint not knowing who the Andrews Sisters were.  The night that one was posted, my wife yelled from the den, "Who are the Andrews Sisters?"  The Andrews Sister were a singing group a little before and during World War II.  They were very popular and had a hit song called the Bugle Boy of Company B.

2/27/2007

There are programs in local Universities that will provide such surveys for practically nothing. In order to give students real world marketing experiences, classes spend an entire semester working on surveys for businesses, etc. and then provide the results upon completion. I know the University of Mobile has done this in the past. I think paying $36K or however much, is ridiculous for such a survey when undergraduate marketing classes can do the same thing for practically nothing. For that matter, a marketing firm may be able to provide a lower cost survey than a "POA or Country Club consulting firm" . This board needs to get a handle on its spending.

2/27/2007 From a Director . . .

Mitch, come back to Earth. The consultant who commented on a tennis pro, happened to have been hired by the following Clubs: Country Club of Birmingham(Birmingham), Green Valley Country Club, Montgomery Country Club (Montgomery), Mountain Brook Country Club (Birmingham,) North River Yacht Club (Tuscaloosa), Riverchase Country Club (Birmingham), Skyline Country Club (Mobile) The Club (Birmingham), Turtle Point Yacht & Country Club (Killen), Vestavia Country Club (Birmingham), Wynlakes Golf & Country Club (Montgomery). And those are just the Clubs in Alabama. I could list over 900 more throughout the world. Still got your Bugle? -Clint Martin

Sorry, I don't know what that means?

2/27/2007

Thanks, Mitch for attending that special meeting the other night. What a mess. Do you remember Jake doing a survey? Nancy Weibel helped him write it. It was full of good questions, but too closely printed and too little space for answers. Very few people returned theirs to the main office. But Mitch, $35,000 for people to go door to door....really! We're getting ripped off, get real.

2/26/2007

During the discussion over the consulting proposals at the special meeting the other night, the statement was made that one group was knowledgeable about Country Clubs and the other was more familiar with property owners associations.   During the discussion one of the directors seemed almost indignant that there were some in Lake Forest who thought ours was a Country Club, while he knew that we were certainly not.  We are, according to the director, a POA.  This is similar to a line of thought that has been expressed over the years by director Robison.  For some reason these fellows seem to take exception to those who somehow believe that the Lake Forest Yacht & Country Club is really a Yacht Club or a Country Club.  Frankly, in terms of issues of business, it doesn't make any difference. The same rules apply.  Either at the end of the year the organization has brought in more money that it has spent or it has not.  Under good management, Lake Forest brings in more than it spends. 

It would be interesting, though, to examine this difference of opinion as to what Lake Forest really is.  To this writer, it seems a bit simple to suggest that the LFPOA is merely a property owners association.  Not many POAs have the kind of assets that we do.   In fact, I don't believe that there are any around Baldwin County or even in Alabama, although I could be mistaken.  Neither the Timber Creek nor Rock Creek POA's actually own their amenities.  It is more common for a POA to own a front entrance and have responsibilities limited to keeping a few lights burning, cutting some grass or attempting to enforce covenants.  They certainly do not come even close to having the kind of operation found in Lake Forest.  We own a beautiful club house with a lounge, a 19th Hole grill and a 27 hole golf course.  That does sound like a Country Club.  We own a set of eight tennis courts including a clubhouse.   Four of those tennis courts are Rubico (soft) surfaced.  That sounds like a Racquet Club.  We own a large, lovely building with a lounge and restaurant that sits on the shore of Mobile Bay.  Surrounding that building is a series of docks with boats tied up to them.  That certainly does sound like a Yacht Club.  So, to say that Lake Forest is only a POA seems to really be diminishing all that we are.  What we really are is a POA that owns a Country Club, Racquet Club and Yacht Club.

2/26/2007

During that discussion, director Martin said that the representative from the consulting firm experienced in property owners associations wondered why a POA would have a tennis pro.  Perhaps if the representative had more experience in Country Clubs or Racquet Clubs, he would know.  We own eight tennis courts.  Four of them are Rubico.  This is a soft surfaced tennis court that is wonderful to play on and is compared to the clay courts that we hear about when we watch the French Open.  The salary paid to a tennis pro, especially in Lake Forest, is very low.  The way the pro earns his or her money is more from providing tennis clinics and private lessons than it is from pay by the association.  In return of that small salary, the tennis pro is responsible for making sure that the facility is taken care of and that a program is developed that will attract players to our club.  Over the years we have had pros with varying skills and different degrees of success with these responsibilities.  Some were good teaching pros, some were good program building pros, some were both and some were neither.  However, here is the main reason why the association pays a tennis pro.  Without one, our beautiful Rubico tennis courts would disintegrate into a mess in nothing flat.

2/24/2007

Great report on the LFPOA meeting. I sincerely hope the Board members that come to the meeting uninformed and have done nothing to get informed between meetings get out of the way of those that seem to be doing their homework and are ready to accomplish something. If not it will be a lot like last year long boring meetings with very little getting done.

During the discussion on the consulting proposal, Sherrie Weller said that each director had received copies of the proposals several days before the meeting, both in Email and hard copy in their files.  So, at first glance it would appear that all of them had the opportunity to examine the proposals.  However, more information is dribbling in about the proposals that suggests that the costs indicated during the meeting were not complete.  It may be that rather than stalling because of lack of preparation, some directors could have been stalling because they weren't committed to the idea or the expense of the idea.  If someone would scan a copy of the proposals, your webmaster would be happy to post them out here on the site so that all the members could look them over.  If they would just get a hard copy to me, I will be happy to scan them myself.

2/24/2007

Convert this to a blog or a discussion board to allow subscriptions and easier comments.

Thank you for the suggestion.

2/23/2007

There was a special meeting of the Board of Directors last night and your Webmaster was there.  There were a couple of items on the agenda, one of which I really wanted to hear.  That was the rumored plan to hire a consulting firm to tell us how to renovate Lake Forest.  I listened for an hour and fifteen minutes and finally could take no more.   Allow me to give you a bottom line opinion first and then go into some of the details of the meeting.  This writer came away with the sense that this was a group of conscientious, well intentioned people who want to do what is best for the community.  That's the good news.   The bad news is that they absolutely have the worst leadership in the history of Lake Forest.  Now, here is some of what happened at the meeting. 

First, Bryce Cocke asked that they alter the agenda to add a small item that needed to be voted on.  Bryce thought that it was an insignificant thing that would take very little time.  In retrospect, that was really funny.  As many of you may know, the City of Daphne informed the association some time ago that our sign at the entrance to the Yacht Club is too big and, therefore, illegal.  Apparently, the board had directed Bryce to come up with a plan for its modification.  He said that he had gotten three quotes and the lowest in cost had been selected, presumably by the Board of Directors.  It seemed from the discussion that the renovated sign was found to be still too large and so Bryce talked it over with the sign company and they had indicated that they could modify the sign and bring it into compliance.  Bryce said that the cost of the modifications seem to be reasonable and moved that the board authorize the work.  Jim Moss said that he thought that they should get three bids on the modifications.  Henry Lawson said that he thought that the management, not a director, should get three bids.  This was starting to get comical.  Then Clint Martin suggested that perhaps they might want to create an entrance that matched the other new entrances being built in Lake Forest.  Bryce said that was a different issue and that they could do that later.  But right now, he said, they were under the gun from the City of Daphne and that the sign was supposed to have been fixed in November.  Clint then said that perhaps they could go ahead and take down the old sign and wait until the new entrance idea had been investigated before putting up its replacement.  Bryce said that if they do that, they will never get a new sign approved.  Apparently, what they are doing is actually considered repairing an existing sign, which they can do.  If they take the old sign completely down, then they would be putting up a new sign which might present approval problems.  In any case, Bryce said he didn't care who got bids, but they needed to get this thing done now before the city took action.  Someone finally called for a vote on the motion and it passed by majority vote.  This took about twenty minutes. 

Finally, they got to the consulting discussion.  From their discussion it seems that they had considered four companies to do an analysis of Lake Forest.  They narrowed that down to two companies that were invited present proposals.  One company, and the numbers may not be exactly right here, said that they would do surveys, studies, evaluations and so on and come up with a detailed plan of action for $65,000.   We'll call that Company A.  The second company said they would do the job for around $45,000.  Let's make that Company B.  Each company made a presentation at earlier meetings.  Some of the board attended both meetings, some attended one, and apparently some attended none.  Bear in mind that these are just planning proposals.  No nails will have been purchased at that point.

Clint Martin, John Peterson and Sherrie Weller all agreed that they were most impressed by Company B that had come up with the $45,000 price.  They said that this company had demonstrated the most concern for doing what the membership wanted.  Company B also seemed to have more experience with property owners associations, while Company A seemed to be experienced mainly with country clubs.  After some discussion, the group seemed to agree that the best thing to do would be to have one of the companies do the survey part of the project first, so that they could decide whether or not to proceed.  The directors all seemed to be very concerned with doing the will of the membership and they wanted that survey.  Bryce told them that there had already been a survey taken by Florida State University and the survey showed that the membership wanted the dues reduced and services increased.  He said that was what any new survey would also reveal.  Sherrie Weller made a motion to commission Company B to do the survey and hold the focus groups to find out what Lake Forest members wanted.  She read the details of that part of the project including the price.  It would involve teams prowling the neighborhood surveying members and holding focus groups that would be structured to study several different demographics, such as the 45 and under age group, 45 - 65 group, and over 65 group. 

Then, Clint made a long speech about how changes needed to be made so that the association would stop losing money.  Bryce pointed out that the association was not losing money.  He asked Joe, the Finance Chairman, to confirm that, which he did.  Clint did not really agree, saying that money was not being set aside for capital improvements and therefore they needed to streamline the operation or something to that affect.  Then Clint, said that he was particularly impressed with the Company B consulting group for a couple of interesting reasons.  He said that the new members of the board like himself may have come into the job with some preconceived notions that may not have been quite right.  For example, he said, he had thought that a fitness center would be a great idea for Lake Forest.  He said the the Company B consultant had suggested that such an idea was insane.  Why, according to the consultant, would you want to put a fitness center in an association of three thousand people.  You already have enough services that are costing money.  Clint said that he also had visions of a new Country Club.  Your writer is paraphrasing here.  He said that the consultant had told them that they already have a nice clubhouse and that if your members were using the facilities as they should, all that space would needed .  Your webmaster was beginning to like the guy from Company B.  Sounds like an Andrews Sisters song, doesn't it?  Clint probably wouldn't know who the Andrews Sisters are. 

At this point the wheels started falling off the discussion.  Joe Moseley said that he would like more information on what the cost would be for the survey/focus group portion of the project.  He asked if he could alter the motion to simply select Company B, but not actually hire them until they knew more about the cost.  Jim Moss said that if they would not spend any money, he would support that amendment.  Sherrie said that the costs were spelled out in the proposal.  This phase would be around $36,000.  Well, having seen what it cost for surveys of the Yacht Club property, appraisals of the Yacht Club, studies by auditors of a restructuring proposal, litigation expenses and other such things, your webmaster thought that the price was not really out of line.  Maybe it would be a good thing to have someone perform an in depth study of the wishes of the membership. 

Then Willie started looking at the proposal and complained that they were charging the cost of the airline tickets plus 10%.  Why do they want the 10%?  Their per diem is too high.  This part was too much and that part was too much.  There were not enough days in their survey schedule.  It was starting to become funny to some in the audience, but definitely unfunny to some on the board.  Sherrie said that it seemed to her that this board had difficulty in getting anything done and that this would be another case of that.  John Peterson commented that he thought they should go ahead and agree to get started.   Henry asked if Sherrie objected to Joe's amendment to her motion.  She did.  So, they voted on the amendment.  It failed.  Then they voted on the motion.  It failed.  Nothing was done.  This lasted for about an hour and NOTHING WAS DONE! 

Your completely stunned webmaster left.

2/21/2007

Mitch, the old entrances would have been built by Diamond Head Corp. LFPOA didn't exist.

2/20/2007

If every household contributed $3 dollars, we'd have the new entrances paid for. Make the check payable to LFIF and drop it off at the Clubhouse. Mitch, do you have any idea how much LFPOA spent on the soon to be old entrances made of concrete block painted white? -Clint Martin

As far as I know, they were here when I bought my lot in 1976.  You'll have to ask someone else.

2/20/2007

Special meeting this Thursday night. Now that the board has spent a couple of thou$and on consulting firms, they are now going to hire one of them ( I suspect at a cost of $everal thousands) to tell them what they were elected to do. You don't suppose the money came from the recent "assessment" that they all (except BT) campaigned that they wouldn't do, do you?

2/20/2007

For your reader's information, the last major resurfacing for Lake Forest was done while yours truly was in office. ( Daphne City Council)  You may recall around 1991 when the roads were done with a bond issue. That is sixteen years ago. I will tell you that asphalt pavements in this region are usually good for about fifteen years. Not much longer. The city is doing this work and it is due. I was on the city council at the time and headed the public works committee. No, I did not single handedly get the roads done. Lake Forest actually had a good deal of members on the council at that time. What happened since? Could it be that our members' apathy is related to what the city invests in our neighborhood?

As far as the entrances go. The city is participating a great deal to have them rebuilt. Lake Forest Improvement Fund has given an $8000 donation to the city to see this through. I think it is great that we can get our entrances upgraded for less than the market. I think all owners will be pleased with the results. In fact, I would encourage your readers to donate to the Improvement Fund for this improvement, I did. John Peterson

2/19/2007

It would be great if members could pay dues online..

That's a good idea and one that would not be too difficult to implement.

2/19/2007

Hey Mitch, who is building the new front entrance at Windsor? Is it Daphne city workers with Lake Forest contributions? Someone on the Improvement Comt. just told me she just found out after all these months that the entrances are owned by Daphne! Old news! $100 a paver, get real! Let Daphne use some of that tax money they collect from over 3/4 of their citizens (LAKE FOREST) to improve the entrances. The Mayor has lost it, we do not need a sports center, we need City Hall to take care of their roads. Lake Forest was paved maybe 10 years ago? Besides the little work they did in 2006 in a few areas.

The entrances to Lake Forest have been maintained primarily by volunteers since the City of Daphne took over the streets of the subdivision.  The City of Daphne, though, is the owner of all of those entrances.  The volunteers consist mainly of our own Lake Forest Garden Club.  Those men and women have done an outstanding job of keeping the Windsor, D'Olive and north entrance looking beautiful.  Also, maintenance staff of the association work to keep the fountain and other structures in good shape.  The City of Daphne cuts grass in the medians.  The north entrance was completely rebuilt about eight or ten years ago through a grant acquired by the City of Daphne.  Originally there was approximately a hundred and twenty thousand dollars available.   There was some discussion by the city of using that money toward sidewalks in Lake Forest, but that idea was dropped when complaints were received from a number of residents.  An alternative proposal was presented to replace the aging sculpture and fountain at the north (Highway 90) entrance.  The city agreed and in a joint project between the city and Lake Forest, the present entrance was built.  The money came from the grant and the design and supervision of the project was handled by a Lake Forest committee.  It was and still is a beautiful entrance.  Lake Forest was represented by a committee formed by the Lake Forest Board of Directors and chaired by Stan Keel.  The total cost of that project was around sixty-five thousand dollars.  Those entrances are the first impression that guests get of our community.  I'm not sure we would want to leave that in the hands of the City of Daphne.

2/16/2007 From a director . . .

Toni Fassbender and I spoke at an Eastern Shore Chamber of Commerce event Thursday. Toni did a wonderful job promoting our amenities and outside membership opportunities. -Clint Martin

2/14/2007 From a director . . .

The age of the home does have an impact. But, also, there are new homes being built in Lake Forest on lots with underground power. Have we compared these prices to other subdivisions without amenities? If you would, you would likely still find a disparity. The fact is that our amenities are not building our values as they should be. I believe they can, though. It will take desire, planning, and funding to accomplish this. The board has the desire and will likely start the planning, with member involvement. The members will have to vote on the funding. What will the members say about it? I guess we will see. -John Peterson

We will see.  It is interesting that underground power seems to be such an issue.  My wife and I visit open houses quite often.  She loves to look at the new homes and I like to stay out of the doghouse.  In all the times that we've visited those beautiful new homes, I have never heard anyone comment on whether or not there were telephone poles.  I must admit.  The subject has never occurred to me.  Is this such a big deal for most people?  I do like one thing about visiting those new homes.  I always walk away thinking, "Man!  I have a terrific deal!"

2/14/2007  From a director . . .

I would like to remind everyone about the Lake Forest Business After Hours on Friday, February 16th, from 5:00-7:00 at the Bayview Lounge. I have no idea what the turnout will be, but would appreciate your help in breathing new life into the Clubhouse with a value added event like this. If you have any questions, feel free to call me at 458-8999. -Clint Martin

2/14/2007  From a former director . . .

I don't think they changed the fences at Montclair. I asked Jake for wrought iron but he opted to try painting the chain link instead. So, I believe they painted the fence on Ridgewood.

2/11/2007 From a director . . .

I have to take exception to the submission about why people buy here in Lake Forest. The overriding determinant in most homebuyers here is price. Clear and simple, Lake Forest is a very affordable community. Have you looked at the new subdivisions to the east? Avalon, boasting a common lot with a pond and gazebo, which was built in the middle of a farmer's field, has homes starting in the $350,000's. Who can afford that? Even with our amenities, there are likely not five homes that would bring that money here. Why is that? We have a golf course, a Yacht Club, swimming pools, tennis courts, and so on. How can that be? Well, the simple answer is that our amenities have become less than desirable. They have not kept the promise they once had. Is it possible to bring the promise back? It certainly is. It will take a while, but the board has begun the process. It is time to begin planning for the future of Lake Forest. The path we are on will not get it done. To claim it has, would not be accurate. Take the example above. The housing market had a great climb these past three years. We in Lake Forest enjoyed some of that. But why has our community lagged behind the other areas? Is it just overhead power? Or lack of sidewalks? Do our amenities count for anything? Why does a new subdivision home sell for $100K more than one the same size in Lake Forest? What is it that brings our values down? You can say that it is the age of the home, if you want to. The fact is that our LPOA has not done its job. We have not set aside the capital necessary to improve and maintain our amenities. We have very nearly the exact same thing we had thirty years ago. The same pools, the same clubhouse, and so on with very little change. OK, sure we have made some modifications and improvements to the 19th Hole, the proshop, and the Yacht Club. There has been some renovation, here and there. But basically, we have the same thing. Now consider this. Do you have the same thing at your house? Are you still using rabbit ears on your TV, or have you upgraded to cable, or even digital cable? Do you still use a rotary phone, or have you gone to a cordless, touchtone? In the same manner, our facilities need to modernize. Just take a look at our clubhouse; there are stairs everywhere. That is not in keeping with today's accessibility requirements. Our pools have steps, where zero entry is the current trend. Our pool decks are filled with mildewed furniture and surrounded by chain link fences with barbed wire on top, instead of spray islands for children surrounded by aesthetic wrought iron fences. It is my belief that if we can capitalize on our amenities if we improve them to meet today's needs. Look at what happened at Lakewood. Their new pool is very nice. Would it surprise you that we have members who have joined Lakewood for the pool? They pay hundreds a month to drive away from our pools to Lakewood. Does that make any sense? Why not give the people what they want, let it attract members and interest in our subdivision, and by doing so lift our prices up on our homes. It is time, do we have the courage and conviction for it to occur? Stay tuned-John Peterson

There is merit to much of what the director says.  On the other hand, using home price as some sort of determinant is not appropriate.  It's kind of like those, "Taste Great, Less Filling" commercials.  Everyone uses it, regardless of which side of the argument they are on.   Homes are less expensive in Lake Forest than they are in some of the newer subdivisions.  That is true.  But then, that is more a factor of the average age of the homes than it is with the quality of the amenities.  There are lower priced homes outside of Lake Forest, so if price were the only determinant, then they wouldn't buy here.  There are nicer amenities outside of Lake Forest, so if nice amenities were the reason, then they wouldn't buy here.  What Lake Forest offers is a very nice alternative.  The homes are reasonably priced and the amenities are also nice.  It's the whole package, as contributors have said in the past.   You may say, "What about new homes in Lake Forest?  Why aren't they more expensive?"  Because the price of the home is determined not just by the home itself but with the rest of the homes in the area.  So, if you put your new house in a community with twenty and thirty year old houses, it probably won't bring as much as it would if all the neighbor houses were also new.  Also, if the lot you build on costs twenty thousand dollars, then the house probably won't be expensive as it would have been if your lot had cost a hundred thousand dollars.  So, if the board wants to modernize, great!  But, bear in mind, that except for a couple of us old-timers who built here when Lake Forest was new,  most the people moved here because of the good value alternative.   I do like John's ideas about wrought iron around the pools.  I've also complained about the chain link fences for years.  I believe we did put nicer fences around the Montclair pool a few years ago.  I may be mistaken.  One more observation for those Lake Forest bashers out there, I would not trade our rolling hills and wooded lots for any of those cookie cutter subdivisions in old pastures.  It wouldn't matter what the amenities looked like.

2/11/2007  From a director. 

Notice where our ratings are, now. Check it out here.  It is very good.

2/10/2007

I have to admit that your (the web masters) response about selling the marina...or any of the facilities is right on the mark. The selling point for Lake Forest properties isn't any single amenity...it's the complete package. That is why I bought here. The realtor that we used even tried to steer us away from Lake Forest as "just a run-down older community". We still wanted to have a look-see...and are glad that we did. Without the amenities, we are indeed just a large subdivision of older homes. Just drive anywhere in Baldwin county and there are plenty of new homes in new subdivisions selling for right about the same price as a home in Lake Forest sells for. 3500 homes are planned for up route 225. When those go up...without our facilities...who would even look at Lake Forest properties. And with that what happens to our property values? Why do people continue to buy in Lake Forest...not the new homes...it is the facilities that we have to offer. The entire package...not just one. The golf courses (plural), the marina, the clubs (again plural), the lake and yes...even the stables. Don't get me started on the lake...I live on it and the silt and grass is now so bad that I can't use my dock at all. On another note...I am not in favor of raising the monthly membership dues, but in my job I do travel a lot. When I mention what a great community I live in and the facilities available for my family's use everyone asks what the monthly dues are. When I tell them, they almost faint at how INEXPENSIVE we have it. My sister lives in a deed restricted community, with only one amenity...a lake about the size of ours...and she pays 3 times as much per month.

You are right!  It always grieves me to hear members complain about the state of the amenities, although the lake is a big problem.  As for the other amenities, I think it is familiarity that breeds the contempt.  Guests that come in always remark at how nice the place is.  For those who say our community is not as nice as this Creek or that Creek, why not suggest to them that the board will be happy to renovate everything.  All they would need to do is allow the board to raise the maintenance fees to the same level as those Creeks.  We would hear such an outcry that our ears would be ringing.

2/10/2007

AW, COME ON MITCH, YOU'RE A SMART GUY AND I'M ONE OF YOUR GREATEST ADMIRERS, BUT SOMETIMES YOU REMIND ME OF PAUL FINEBAUM - I'M JUST NOT ALWAYS SURE OF WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM. I'M A BIG BELIEVER THAT WHAT YOU LOSE ON THE POPCORN YOU MAKE UP ON THE PEANUTS. HOWEVER, THIS CAN'T BE DONE WITH FOOD AND BEVERAGE,  NOT HERE, NOT THE MOBILE COUNTRY CLUB, NOT HERON LAKES, NOT AUGUSTA NATIONAL, ETC. WITHOUT A MANDATORY CHARGE PER MONTH, USE IT OR LOSE IT. (AND THAT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN HERE). SO, IF THE SUPPLEMENT REQUIREMENT GETS OUT OF SIGHT YOU CUT IT OUT. THE YACHT CLUB IS THERE ($11,000/MO. LOSS OR SO). GO DOWN THERE ON FRIDAY AFTERNOON AND WATCH AS THE SAME BUNCH COMES IN AND ORDERS A GLASS OF WATER AND EATS SUPPER FROM THE FREE OFFERINGS. SELL DRINKS, GIVE AWAY POPCORN AND PEANUTS AND YOU MIGHT EVEN MAKE MONEY - THE BAYVIEW LOUNGE DOES - THAT'S RIGHT THE ONE SOMEONE IS COMPLAINING ABOUT BEING OPEN! AS FOR THE SALE OF THE YACHT CLUB, IT WAS REJECTED BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO GIVE AWAY THE 9 HOLE GOLF COURSE WHICH WAS ATTACHED AS A RIDER ON THE SAME VOTE. IF WE COULD SELL THE YACHT CLUB FOR A LARGE AMOUNT AND DIVIDE IT AMONG OUR MEMBERS THE VOTE WOULD BE AT LEAST TWO-THIRDS TO DO SO. THAT'S ALL I GOT TO SAY ABOUT THAT, BUBBA P.S. LOVE YOUR WEB SITE - THANKS

Only an Alabama fan could come up with that comparison.  It seems that lately I've annoyed people on both sides of the discussions. ;-)

Food & Beverage is a losing proposition.  Agreed.  Many restaurants on Highway 98 are unable to make it, even though they have more than ten times the number of potential customers as a Lake Forest restaurant.  So, trim F&B back and think of another approach.  However, the Yacht Club is not just a restaurant.  I was talking with a professor just today.  He was telling me about a marina over in Mobile where he kept his 21' sailboat.  Before the hurricane his slip rental was $55 per month. Now the slip rental is $150 per month.  A friend of his, who has a 24' sailboat, is now paying $175 per month.  The professor now keeps his boat on a trailer at home under a tarp.  (Something that is not allowed in Lake Forest)  Our marina has always been the only amenity that actually made a profit.  In fact, if we lumped the marina and Yacht Club together, there have been times when the combined amenity actually looked pretty good financially when compared to the rest of Lake Forest, especially the golf course.   This is and always has been a recreational community.  However, the point is that regardless how much money golf costs or tennis costs or boating costs, Lake Forest has members who enjoy each of them and there is enough revenue to support them all.  If that ever changes, then the board will have to consider other options.  But, rest assured that until that time, if any amenity is sold, you will see those same members moving to sell them all.  Before that, though, you will see a crowd in court claiming that the association broke the deal and they should be allowed to opt out.  See how well we get along without those dues.  This whole selling of amenity thing is a slippery slope that I would hate to see us go down.  I don't agree that it was the nine hole golf course that the members wanted to save.  It was the total package. 

Also, just for the sake of discussion, how would you go about dividing up that money.  Consider this.  We have couples who have lived in Lake Forest for many, many years.  For our example, let's use the number 20 years.  They have been good members who supported our association with their participation and user fees as well as dues.  They may have even served on one of the volunteer groups in the community.  Some of those couples are now finding themselves having to sell their home in Lake Forest and move to assisted living in a nice place like Westminster.  Now they sell their home to someone brand new, who may already be complaining about dues and not using any amenity.  For some reason, the membership, which would include this new member, decides to sell the Yacht Club and split the cash.  What a great country!  You buy an older home in Lake Forest and hit the pot of gold!  Of course, the folks who just moved to Westminster will continue to watch their pennies to make sure they can get by.  I've lived here for thirty years.  The above contributor has lived here for many years.  We have both invested thousands of dollars in Lake Forest.  Are we going to get the same cut as the guy who sent in his first forty bucks?  This is only a pretend discussion.  The Lake Forest Property Owners Association is the legal entity that owns the amenities.  The courts would never allow the proceeds for a sale to be distributed among those members who just happen to own property at the time.  If this ever does look like it might be possible, that would be a great time to buy up a bunch of rental property in Lake Forest!

2/9/2007

It's really quite simple. Either you cut out unprofitable LF activities or, if you want to keep those activities to maintain a nice standard of living, then you increase fees - either to the entire community or those consumers of the activity. Some people say sell the marina, it's in disrepair, underutilized, needs constant dredging and could serve as something a lot nicer. Take the money, pay off the debt and upgrade the clubhouse and other facilities. Focus on other than boating! Sealed bids are the only way to go board members. Have you seen the articles about the trailer park on the sea, Vero Beach, FL I believe, as a group they are selling for $500 million. Their first offer from a local developer was for only around $125 million. Each lot owner is walking away with millions! Think big, Lake Forest! We have very valuable property in the Marina. A caring resident!

The nice thing about an open discussion like the Grapevine is that we can all share different ideas and not necessarily have to agree.  You friendly neighborhood Webmaster doesn't agree with much of this one.  Here are a few points.  To begin with, there is enough revenue presently available to run the Lake Forest amenities without dues increases, assessments or loans.  It is just a matter of setting the scope of the operation and managing it properly.  There is enough available cash flow to even support additional loans for major capital improvements assuming that the board comes up with ideas for improvements that they think will enhance the community.   While it is agreed that the channel to the Yacht Club could certainly use a dredging, it is not "constantly dredged".  I believe the last time was over twenty years ago.  The membership voted in an overwhelming way just a couple of years ago that they did not want to sell the Yacht Club.  Usually, you will find that it is those who are not frequent users of an amenity that seem to want to sell that one and spend the money on their own favorite facility.  That sentence is not meant to refer to the caring resident above.  It is just a common condition.  That is essentially what the original developer meant when he said, "if you sell any amenity, you should sell them all."  If you look at the membership as a whole, you will find that there is no amenity that is used by a majority of the membership.  So, if we start down the road to selling amenities, we can count on all of them being gone in short order at which point Lake Forest just becomes another mature subdivision with older homes.  If an amenity were sold, the money would go to the legal entity called the Lake Forest Property Owner's Association, not to the individual residents.  Then, that money would probably be wasted and we would then have no money and no amenity.  History should tell us that.  The Vero Beach situation is one in which the lot owners are selling their own homes, not a few amenities.  It is not the same kind of situation.  If you want to think big, why not thing of ways that one of the most valuable recreational facilities on the Eastern Shore of Mobile Bay can be brought to life?  Just because we haven't done it yet, does not mean that it cannot be done.  For the record, your Webmaster is one of those who thinks that a boat is a hole in the water that you pour money into.  He has no personal interest in the Yacht Club other than its potential to offer our members some R&R.

2/8/2007

I have heard from a reliable source that the directors on the board who are in favor of having only one pool are in the minority.  That should be of some relief to yesterday's contributor.

2/7/2007

I suggest that for $2200 you are not going to receive a good study and analysis of our situation from a consultant, or was that $2200 for each firm they select to do the study? $4400? Who hires two firms? One competent, reliable consulting firm should bring a competent analysis with several different solutions available to us if this is a professional group. You get what you pay for. Some of these firms charge $600 a day for their consultants. They stay on jobs for 6-8 weeks in many cases. Undoubtedly, if that's all we can spend you can expect simple solutions and quickly, remember they do not work the plan(s) presented, only give their educated professional opinion as to what they think will work, then they catch the nearest plane out of here. They do not hold your hand until you work a plan successfully. They come back again only if you rehire them! We've paid out enormous expenses for years. We constantly spend big and nickel and dime each amenity to death. Underwood had us to pay big for appraisals, for what? The cost was phenomenal! And they seemed bogus. Let's not forget the huge monies we spent trying to give away this place. Nevertheless wearing the moral fiber down on each caring resident. We continue spending so crazily, we are a maintenance driven community. Not dues driven. Each amenity does not have to pay for itself! It's very difficult to make money with food, stop trying to. You do make money with drinks/beverages. Somebody on the board figured out that you can't pay employees, insurance, etc and keep a lounge open for 15 people each evening (Bayview). Never was intended that way! Run over the expenditures; settling lawsuits; obvious theft of years ago; remember the cook selling the meat delivered to ANOTHER ADDRESS; early termination of food contractors; attorneys, going to court about taxes, then being caught not paying them again! Bay Minette courthouse thinks we're a bunch of fools, I'm sure!  My gosh somebody take a financial course.  If we run our homes this way we'd all declare bankruptcy. Can we avoid some of these mistakes in the future?  We are about 8000 people in here, maybe 1/3 of them kids and you want us all to use one pool for how many months a year in this deep south temperature?  One pool?  Get real people! I would be ashamed if I were the President of a Board or Manager and it actually was well-known and openly admitted that we did not understand finances! yikkkkkeeess! Where the heck are we today! Pick a finance course and attend soon, folks!  I'm sure Clint Martin will agree with me! I understand he's an accountant.

2/7/2007 From a director . . .

About the entrances: The entrances need improvement. The Windsor, D'Olive, and Lawson entrances have no similarity to the North entrance. The proposed work, in a city right of way, will be to make the entrances all look similar, brick columns and metal fence look. The entrances will certainly make Lake Forest more attractive and enhance the pride of the neighborhood. This would be what you call a neighborhood improvement project. It is the first of many needed improvements in Lake Forest. John Peterson

This would benefit all members of the community.  The remodeling of the North (Highway 90) entrance cost about $65,000 a few years ago.  We are not likely to get three other entrances like that with a few hundred dollars in contributions, but any work would be an improvement.

2/6/2007 From a director . .

Ken Eslava is, in fact, working a plan to improve our roads. Due to the condition of them, the first process will be repairing failed sections of the roads. This will be done on Ridgewood and Bayview. These roads will have rebuilds done this year in the failing areas. Just this past week, I was asked to join Ken, along with his engineers and a representative of our Improvement Committee, in a ride around these roads to review his project priorities. We rode Ridgewood and Bayview taking notes on areas where major rebuilding was necessary. The bulk of road money will likley be spent on that phase this year. Any money remaining will be used for an overlay of asphalt. Rather than focusing on sections of the roads, he has decided that he needs to repair all of the bad areas and make the roadways safer to drive, first. You will likley see these patches throughout the street runs for a year or two. The good news is that the roadway will be drivable when these are done. It could be that some resurfacing occurs, it all depends on the state of the roadway and the cost of repairs. In other news, the Improvement Committee has received funding from the LFPOA and Friday Construction to buy materials for the entrance improvements. The city will be building the entrances as we donate money for the materials. You can contribute to this good work buy donating to the Lake Forest Improvement Fund. See details at the official website. The revitalization is underway, please support it. John Peterson

2/6/2007

Just to clarify for the writer on 2-5-07. The board voted at the last meeting to hire 2 "consulting" firms to come in and "assess" the amenities and make "recommendations" as to how Lake Forest could be improved. They voted $2500 total as a maximum for these "studies". The "General Mis-Manager" also reported that they had requested and received an opinion from the association attorney advising that they could "sell" assets and not affect the tax exempt status if the money was put back into other assets of the association. Interestingly, the last presidents comments in the LF paper indicated that everything is on the table except the Yacht Club property. The last statement by the contributor is right on mark- If they can't manage what we have now, there is no reason to believe they can manage a large sum of monies from the sale of assets. On a final note, the improvement committee requested, and was approved, for up to $4000 for entrance work. You'll recall that this is City property and we already pay taxes to maintain that property. It offends me that these slates on the board have gone back on their word of "no assessments" continued "free pools" etc. and then are spending money to improve city property and "consultants".

This notion of selling assets can be a very dangerous one for the association, especially if the president is talking about amenities.  Even Bob, the architect of the restructuring proposal considered the selling of an amenity to be so significant that it required a vote of the membership.  The previous developer even went as far as to say that "if any amenity were to be sold, they should all be sold."  Lake Forest has always been represented as a total recreational community.  A single pool too far away for most of the children to get to does not make a recreational community.  A couple of hard surface tennis courts will not replace a Racquet Club and so on.  To substantially alter the product being offered could easily be construed as a violation of the basic agreement, which could result in a legal exodus of dues paying members.   As the Chairman of the Finance Committee said in his explanation of the assessment, with ten million dollars in assets and only three hundred thousand dollars in debt, Lake Forest is in good shape.  (Not everything he said in that statement was accurate)  It would be possible to renovate without breaking our commitments and selling amenities that some of our members consider valuable.

2/5/2007

The waterfall is nice, the medians are looking great. Why not put that much effort into getting our roads fixed? I drive through some pretty bad stuff just to get home! If Ridgewood were Main Street, a pot hole would be fixed the next day. Why is that?

We have  been told by Ken Eslava, the City of Daphne Public Works Director, that Lake Forest roads will be worked on soon.

2/5/2007

I was speaking with a former director today who was telling me about the last stated meeting.  He reports that the board voted to have a consultant come in and make recommendations on how the club can be renovated.  He said they were talking of closing the outlying pools, moving everything to the main club, and building a new Country Club.   He remarked that Henry thought that by bringing in an inspector last fall, he would get a report that supported his contention that the Country Club needed to be torn down.  It didn't turn out that way.  The former director suggested that if they look hard enough, they might be able to find someone this time who would tell them what they want to hear.  He commented that they cannot run the place without an assessment now, how can the begin to even think that they can manage a major redevelopment of our club.  I have to admit that his concern seems valid.  It would be wonderful to think that renovating the Country Club will just create all kinds of excitement in Lake Forest and result in a mad rush to patronize the place.  After all, in Field of Dreams the voice said, "If you build it, he will come."  Hey, if it came from Hollywood, it must be true, right?  However, if poorly run, even a new club will fall on its face.  Unfortunately according to reports, Henry has run off two accountants and we know that he doesn't have a clue about the financials.  We know that we have other employees who are actively interviewing for jobs.  The management doesn't seem to be able to get a grip on operations, thus the assessment and loan.  Now we've been told that she has hired a friend to take over the accountant's job.  Let's hope that this person is a real CPA.     Actually, the idea of renovation sounds interesting.  However, the first order of business should be to get our house in order and managed properly. 

2/3/2007 Grapevine loses reliable source.

Since the beginning of the Grapevine we have had the benefit of contributions from one of the association's knowledgeable employees.  This person has often explained to us why contributions from some of our other members were off the mark and provided factual information in the process.  On occasion the contributor has even corrected misstatements of some of our inexperienced directors.  The individual has been a valuable resource for this website.  What follows is the last contribution we will be receiving from our friend.  We wish the person well in future endeavors and want the person to know he/she will be missed by Lake Forest not just in terms of the website but for all the he/she did in helping our association to operate smoothly.

Henry is a contributing factor as to why I left. It is frustrating to explain financials over and over to some people. There is no need to worry, Toni has hired her friend to take over. Mitch this will be my last contribution.